Well, I certainly don't think all East pilots feel that way. Clearly though, it would seem a majority here do. I'm not going to judge them all by one psychotic loose cannon. As for your final paragraph, well history would lend some credibility to that. Again, I think the APA is in a tough spot credibility wise. They not only ushered in the wolf, but SOLD him to the pilots. They shot craps on profit-sharing selling that back for 26 million and lost. They're waving an honorable flag at the furloughees regarding LOS, but that almost certainly will result in a goose egg. The claim situation was a fouled up sham from stem to stern. They went mute on the LTD gutting and most pilots are totally unaware of how little it will provide. Then there's the robocall Wilson made to neuter the effectiveness of his own pilots. The list goes on.......

The scope requests were simply manufactured onerously to make it look good by subsequent removal as Parker has nothing to lose there at he can't get anything in arbitration on it. Thus, if the APA just punts to the pilots now, they'll look like they've been played successfully once more and quite frankly it will only result in MORE fragmentation in the future and a weaker cohesive group. Another win for Parker. It may be painful (for now) to reject THIS offer and shoot craps with arbitration, but I think in the long run, it's the better play, at least to align more resolved pilots.

What has knee-trembling capitulation gotten ANY of these three pilot groups in the past ?

I don't see anything good there. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten.

 

Good luck staffing all those RJs with each major hiring upwards of 1,000 pilots per airline per year. And yes, the "new, improved" amenable date is one year difference. But talking to some guys they think it's a decade. Not that I'm advocating APA give that up...but, just sayin'.

 

Parker won't be any more generous in the future, because he isn't a "generous" person, he's a manipulator and happy to take advantage of us now using the "this isn't section 6" claim (again, while treating that way for himself by asking for longer duration, a'la section 6).

My point is next time he won't be able to use those claims as we WILL be in section 6 and considering his treatment of us so far, it will (and should) be a bare-knuckle negotiations brawl just like the old AA. Again, it's obvious the "new AA" was just as much a façade and myth as Parker wanting to reset labor relations at AA.

Except for the size of this airline and the paint, nothing's really changed.

 

I personally don't see this pilot group getting large Delta-style compensation packages with the current management. It's just not their thing. They have always ran airlines based on cost control, period. They'll throw us sophomoric pay increases to keep people from rioting, but that's about it. I think true Section 6 negotiations will be higher stakes for them since arbitration in that case would not be cost-neutral and an arbitrator could take into account Delta and United's profit-sharing schemes. But it will never be easy...and in this particular situation we have today, the MOU has backed APA into a corner.

 

Chest thumping aside. Parker and company will have a different excuse at that time. We will still lack any real leverage and will not be able to get an ILC. It's just not in the cards while Parker is at the helm.

ILC's are created largely by management's willingness to give them, not by unions. All unions want an ILC, but few get it. If management honestly wants an ILC, THEY will offer it. Our management isn't that kind of team.

 

Beat me to it. +1

 

What does this legacy have now ?

I think it's something like about 600 aircraft, 2/3's of which are obsolete 50-seaters or smaller. With legacy retirements, LCC's loss of pilots to other non-regional carriers and their expansions, the big freight carriers like FedEx and UPS hiring, excellent corporate jobs, etc., the regionals are screwed.

I predict he'll still be able to put perhaps half the current number of RJ's in feed positions in the 64-76-seat range. I think the scheme is to attract pilots to AA (as if this place will be all that attractive compared to some of the others) is to use Eagle as the carrot. Parker at this very moment is ratcheting compensation DOWN there, so it's ability to attract pilots will only get worse on that basis. Once a cradle-to-grave scheme is unleashed, Delta and UAL will match that, getting the lions share of the few pilots out there in the pipeline (which is currently virtually a dustbowl). That pipeline takes YEARS to develop to meet future demand. No, I'm convinced the RJ candle has effectively burned out and as we speak mainline is already beginning to recapture previously lost flying to regionals. It's ironic, but the ones who snuffed out that candle are guys like Parker. Anderson and UAL execs see the future, but Parker puts a proposal in their opener asking for hundreds MORE RJ's

Jesus, if people can't see that play for what it is, they truly are lost and quite frankly, Parker and Glass are correct in where pilots weaknesses lie and there inability to collectively tie there own shoes. I think of a cat batting around a stuffed mouse toy. This may sound nuts, but honestly, I'd think we'd be better off giving him his worthless scope RJ proposal back and keeping all the work rule changes he wants. Most pilots now (well, the few that are in the pipeline) know that a regional is just a place to spend 6 months or a year or so and move on and even with the promise of a mainline job (from people KNOWN for reneging on promises and taking advantage), they'll have no loyalty. The first legacy, LCC, quality cargo job that appears, they're gone. A small percentage might stay for the elusive carrot, but most will bail for something else.

Of the 3 legacies, AA clearly will be the least desirable (to say nothing of Eagle) and will have the highest percentage of bailouts further weakening AA against its competitors and most will see Eagle as a revolving door to get some turbine time and then split. Essentially, it will be a money losing flight school for the benefit of the competition. Would you rather work for an Anderson or a Parker ?

Most will not get too cozy at Eagle and will think long-term on where they want to shoot craps for a career. When you have little invested it's much easier to pull the ejection handle. It's going to be a VERY interesting landscape here and at the other legacies in the approaching years and I think poor Doug just burned any bridge he might need here with most pilots in the future. Then there's the product itself...........

Like I said, ultimately I think there WILL be a price to pay for all this, it's just not evident yet and may even take years. I think that price WILL show up eventually though and we all lose because of that Doug included. Parker has played this situation just as poorly as Horton played his. I guess it's just their way ?

 

I will try not to repeat too much here because I have already posted this three times
First it looks like the SCOTUS will hear King v Burwell in early spring 2015.
Second not having to worry about preexisting conditions and health care makes labor more powerful.
Third, I am sure I am the minority and that no one on this blog is going to ever change the way that they vote in presidential elections, but I'd take my average pay and benefits during the Clinton and now Obama over the Bush presidency any day.

 

"Dear Allied Pilots,
Miss me yet?? Did you think my old buddy Dougie was going to be different than me? Did you believe him when he told you how important you are?! BWAAAA-HAAAAA-HAAAAAAA-HAAAAAAAA!!! Suckers!!!"
Signed,
Tom Horton

 

I was strongly opposed to the MOU and voted against it because it had too many holes in it that DUI would abuse. This bar-napkin "offer" is 100 times worse.

This will cost us 2 cents for every penny increase.