Well, could be better.

That claim has been offered before. AA's C11 was a strategic one by a company with 6 billion in cash at the time and was simply about shedding debt by gutting the employees, namely pensions and retiree health care. I know that means little to Usapians.

But finally it seems we both agree it would have been better for both sides (AA pilots and US Airways pilots), if we didn't merge ! We'd keep our failing airline destined to liquidation and you'd keep your profitable one layered on a bed of roses. That was my point. You apparently agree highlighting AA's apparent worthlessness compared to US Airways and so why would you want to join that and become part of the dreaded APA in the process ?

Finally, we're both on the same page about something.

 

So now, with reasonable discussion which is what I promised to you and I will keep, if you have been reading my last several posts and all that is supposedly going on with EagleFly and the C&R board.....you REALLY THINK THAT as of today the pilots at the New American REALLY STAND A CHANCE in arbitration OR even getting ready for contract negotiations in 2019?

I haven't been on this web board for the COMPANY benefit, I'm here to prove a point. You asked for civility and I'm giving it to you, and only you so far, because you asked me for it.

But now I am asking you if you GET MY POINT? If the APA cannot figure out that the need to cut there losses now and regroup for 2020 and better confidence control then you RISK LOSING ANYTHING in 2019 or 2020.

You CAN'T give up something in the MOU you gave away already in the first place.

What say you?

 

Buyers remorse!!! GOTTA LOVE IT!

 

Really, EF?? We're in the middle of contract negotiations and you come out, guns blazing, with this divisive, tribalism BS. Not cool, dude.

Have some couth...at least wait until the SLI begins before you start throwing out that pablum again.

 

What ?

I'M being "divisive" ?

Jesus, you obviously are ignoring the vibe of your own East brethren, especially your own in-house union-busting junkyard dog Rover66. I guess it's really true, perception is selective.

Man, I think you need a reality check.

 

Great blast from the DFW vice chair ! His attitude and position is what I'm talking about. I want the best for ALL "new AA" pilots and I want the "new" AA to become all that it has the potential to be and NOT to regress back to the formula of failure. It IS an attainable goal !

It's up to Parker though.

 

Hmmmmm..... Now I'm convinced again that you're the guy I thought you were. "YES!!! VOTE YES!!!!! WE HAVE TO VOTE YES!!! NO MATTER WHAT, VOTE YES!!! IF WE VOTE NO, THE AIRLINE WILL SHRINK TO 100 PLANES AND WE'LL ALL BE IN THE WELFARE LINE WITH THESE BELOW POVERTY PAYRATES!!!" You at least sound just like him... (Okay, sorry, that was mean. I just don't get why you're rejoicing at the union getting kicked around -- unless you're an old USAPA rep that is disgruntled about how things have turned out???)

As for your "APA Badasses" comment, do you not see that you are the same, on the opposite end of the spectrum? Your burning desire for money (in some circles, that is known as greed...) has you blinded to a reality -- both sides are still negotiating. You're so desperate for more cash, that you're ignoring the fact that you (once again, mighty US Air pilot who we all know stood up to the tyrants of aviation for so many years) are playing right into the Jerry Glass style of negotiating.

As for trusting the company more than the union, I don't have an answer to that. Sometimes yes, sometimes no... There are many times when it seems that neither of them have my best interests at heart.

Anyways, I'm not sure how you placed me in either camp. I can say with absolute certainty that you have no idea how I will vote -- because I don't know yet. I will wait to see the whole package and decide if/when we get a vote. With scope off the table, it's at least worth a look.

And by the way, if you read the VP's update today, you'll notice that the company is still talking, and is "willing to make small economic increases" as the process continues. So, no need to bend over and take the shaft quite yet, giving Ole Jerry everything he wants. On the same token, no need to flat out reject the offer until we see what the company is willing to negotiate. Let's see if we can't work out some language first. Once both sides are done negotiating, then we take a look at the final product and decide. It is as simple as that.

But your willingness to roll over and give the company a carte blanche on language while they're still willing to negotiate is a little disturbing. Anyways, feel free to carry on tilting at windmills. I'm simply going to wait and watch...

 

Not true, we have empathy for you guys, X2, or was it X3, lost count :-)

 

I understand that mantra (although disagree with it). Fact is, most on the East are older and close to retirement and have lost out BIG over the last decade with gutted pensions and the lowest pay rates in the industry prior to the merge. The senior East USAPA strategy then was to agree to the MOU even though it called for USAPA's dissolution even as early as the JCBA process and then reneg once the ca$h was in their hand. Now, more ca$h is offered and fast !

Considering the age and seniority of most of the East (third listers the exception), scope is meaningless to most of these pilots as is other trivial (in their minds) concessions. Just as their MOU strategy was about guaranteed ca$h and fast, so is the JCBA strategy. Some will fight tooth and nail (pun intended) as they are terrified it will slip through their hands before they retire. This is an understandable position for those pilots. Conversely, I don't think it's the best position for those more junior on the East who will pay for that or for the relatively junior West who will be around a lot longer, to say nothing of the shafting of AA legacy pilots......at least the majority.

What were seeing on this forum is simply another facet of the senior Usapian desires manifesting themselves IMO at the expense of the non-senior East minority to include junior East, West and the majority of legacy AA.

 

The DC reps just sent a blast. They sound P.O.ed!!