KYTBRD,

First, thank you for your more than two decades of service to keep me and my family safe...I mean no disrespect towards you and others that have served our country.

When I use the phrase "mission-oriented", I am really referring to the group of our pilots (both Captains, and FOs; mostly senior, but certainly some that are junior; and those that have served in our Armed Forces or not) that refuse to educate themselves, refuse to believe that after more than two decades as a very successful company, the pilot group deserves and should demand top-tier wages, work rules, and retirement.

I actually heard a very senior Captain (top 25 on our list) tell me (incredulously) why I demanded a Business Class ticket a few months ago from Calgary to get home. He was wondering why I could not be satisfied in Coach/Economy for the 3-hour flight. He actually asked me why I was so fixated on "sticking it to the Company"...yes, he actually said those words!!

My answer was simple..."Because it is in the CBA, and we all have to make sure the company respects what they have agreed to". Of course, I can ride in Economy for a few hours...but that misses the point. It misses the fact that both sides have an obligation to follow the CBA...

It is NEVER okay for me to ignore the CBA, and if I do, I can expect to get a call from the Chief Pilot...and guess what?...

It is NEVER okay for the company to ignore the CBA, and if they do, I will call them on it...every time.

That is the only way we can be respected as professionals, and that is the only way we will be able to gain a better CBA for our families.

Okay, rant over, KYTBRD...hang in there, brother...and thanks for your support.

 

744driver, I think you nailed it on the head. Many here think that the ones that follow the CBA are out to "stick it to the company". Sad to see that this is how they think and not that it's what we bargained for.

Contract 2016.

 

744: no offense taken. I've definitely chilled out over the last yr. I was pointing out the difference between mission and flight. Often I hear folks make sure "us" mil folks don't refer to it as a mission. Whatever anyone wants to call it, each pattern should be completed safely within the rules governing our flight operations and the CBA. As to what the updated CBA looks like, we all have ideas and suggestions that will certainly improve quality of life. I'm just probably not the right person to figure that out right now since I'm new to union politics. Nor was I present when the current contract was signed. All I know is hearsay (he said she said). But if I was to asses from an outside perspective I would say that instead of the current situation being union negotiating with the company it 'a union guy vs union guy right now. Mostly because folks don't read what's already there. How can folks argue for a new contract in one breath and then not know what's in the current one? Seems counterintuitive. As a new guy it's sad to see so much focus on the past and not focusing on real negotiations arguments for next year. while some info on his thread is relevant I think the nit noid. Details should be on the union board. It's not always productive to show your a$$ in public.

 

Spot on. When the company tries to press to test on a provision of the CBA (it doesn't happen often but when it does it usually involves not following the R1 call out rules or the required crew rest rules) I call them on it. No rant, no loud voice, no disrespect but I do have the CBA open to the chapter and verse involved. I've never yet had to go above the first level of contact by approaching things this way. Scheduling or Travel will occasionally float something out there that exceeds the protections we have in the hopes the aviator involved hasn't read the contract. Obviously it works often enough that the practice hasn't gone away. The only defense is to know the contract and stick to it.

 

I am commenting on previous comments about how FOs at majors often make more than capts at Atlas. True. But, as another poster said, some fos at Atlas make more than capts at Atlas. Talked to an fo who flew with senior FO...I think JFK based. He made $170 last year, and is on track to make $200k this year. I think this is common at lots of places....if your senior fo u can get the schedules u want, pick up extra trips, while the junior capts on smaller aircraft sit on reserve and make guarantee.

I have a more senior fo buddy.in two recent months he got about 270 credit hours...and he did not outbase.

At my last airline, fo base on smaller plane was $33k. My buddy, as junior fo, on the smaller plane, made $11.5 one month.

I think line guarantee is essential, and I think we will get it in the next contract.

 

Anybody gotten a call recently?

 

Yet I got sent home early 2 months in a row and credited 62 hours. Then they got me for imputed income. This pretty much explains the scheduling practices at Atlas. Makes zero sense.

Any FO making that much at Atlas needs to get a life outside Atlas and go home once and awhile.... Just my opinion!

 

Bingo....all that money and no time to enjoy it. I guess he'll get a good profit sharing check next year as well.

 

There is no doubt that there are FO's making more than many of us Captains W2 wise; but, divide their W2 by days worked and break it down into a daily rate and they aren't making that much at all, they're just spending all their time on the road. For me, it's all about qol.

 

Another reason senior 747 FOs should never bid 767 captain!

But there's nobody making money like that on the 767. My average over almost three years is 72 hours/month.

Early in the program, we had junior 767 FOs making huge money because they were required to fly AMC trips to meet DoD minimums for experience in the cockpit. Of course, they often stayed out for a month or more. No thanks...

What few 767 open time trips appear now go senior - although if you Vx your days off, pretty much anybody has an equal chance of being extended.