Regarding "The start of an on call day does not break the rest clock if a trip is assigned on your last non-fly day." I don't think that is true for non FRMS pilots.

I have seen numerous posts from HK on the scheduling page state that rest is broken for a split second at midnight at the end of the non-fly day in order for the pilot to ascertain what if anything has been placed on their schedule. That is the reason that for 30/168 purposes, the rest end is at midnight and not rotation report like it would be for a REG pilot.

If your post was specifically for FRMS discussion, then I apologize for butting in.

 

You are not notified of the assignment at 12 hours prior. It must be placed on your schedule by that time. You are notified of the assignment whenever you actually see it and acknowledge. You are responsible for ascertaining that assignment - that can be when they place it on your schedule, or at midnight when you go back on call and check your schedule. The only way it would count as being assigned 12 hours prior is if you physically acknowledge it at that time.

 

It wasn't FRMS specific in nature. Which "scheduling page" has HKs posts? I'm curious how the 24 hours without obligation for contact relates to the split second at midnight.

 

I think the 24 hours more comes into play when you're not coming off an X day. It can be a very powerful tool to reduce your SC obligation as well. Say on day 1 you get 1200-1900 SC. Then on day 2 you YS/get assigned a trip that reports at 1300. Scheduling must then go and adjust your day 1 SC to only be 1200-1300 in order to give you the 24 hours free of duty.

 

I don't think that's how it works. They would have to give you 18 hours. The 24 hours off falls under the "A Long call pilot will:" part of section 23

 

DAL FRMS lives under DALA 001 and FOPP **_**_65 SUP2.
In particular these documents supersede FAR and contractual rules that apply to non FRMS ops.
There is one paragraph addressing reserve assignments, when are they covered and the requirement for assigned rest.
At the PWA level the FRMS SC pre rest assigned before 1200 in the last on duty day remains unchanged. Why? If CS has come up with a walk around rest requirements to assigned rotations; wouldn't the same apply to SC requirements?
I dealt with this scenario last week. Contacted ALPA FAR117 and I was not satisfied with the information I received. Be aware there are contradictory documents circulating even on the official DAL doc site.
I have no problem covering a rotation assigned to me. However, I have a concern when it comes to FARs and, in this case, to the particular letter which all pilots operating FRMS ops should be familiar with.
I would appreciate any input and/or insights on this topic. Thanks!

 

False. The obligation to check your schedule implicit at 0000 of the start of your on-call block breaks rest. That's why 1000 is the earliest possible (non-FRMS) assignment on Day 1--you have zero obligation to check your schedule prior to starting on-call, so you have to check at 0000.

Contractually, if it's posted by 1500 (prev) / 1200 (new) the last day, it's allowed to be less than the 12 (prev) / 18 (new) hours report time. Both of those times exceed the minimum 10 per 117. Since you are never required to check your schedule unless you are on call (even on your last non-fly day), you have to break rest at 0000 (i.e., when you do have an obligation to check your schedule) to determine if you have a hypothetical 1000 report. The exception to this is if you've been notified & acknowledged the assignment ahead of time--such as the posted-by-1200 trip. That gets you off the hook for the 0000 phone call to notify you (since you've already ack'd).

Same story for FRMS rest. If you ack the rest + associated trip (because CS went fishing & caught you), then it's yours, and 0000 of your first on-call day goes by uneventfully. If you have not been legally notified, though, your rest cannot begin earlier than 0000.

 

Two different things.

You aren't required to acknowledge the trip--but, if you don't want the VRU calling you at midnight, it behooves you to do so. That hasn't changed. The 24 hours free from contact is free from contact obligation--the company can still attempt to contact you (including one during required rest without interrupting that rest--not an FRMS guy, so there may be a nuance on that point I'm unaware of??).

None of that changes the point that your first obligation to do anything is at 0000 of your first on-call day. That obligation--whether discharged earlier or not--breaks 117 rest.

 

This is correct. Most recent Engaged podcast confirms it at the very end. The company is fishing for FRMS pilots to acknowledge.

 

Thanks!! I'd highly recommend this podcast. 5 stars.

The 31:30 time marker should be mandatory listening for A350 pilots. It confirms the FRMS fishing I was trying to wrap my head around. If I would have listened to this yesterday, it would have saved two pages of posts.

*disregard any of my opinion related commentary on the last couple pages.
Read SRH, PWA and by all means listen to Engage podcast #30.