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Old 11-19-2022, 04:53 AM
  #181  
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If we don't get a deal done by year end, I see another trial balloon going up involving rumots of MBCBP hang ups, large six figure signing bonus offered, and management suggestion that bookings are starting to be impacted by a possible recession. At that point we'd enter an Avengers like Endgame. Anyone got popcorn?

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Old 11-19-2022, 04:54 AM
  #182  
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Originally Posted by interceptorpilo View Post
Really? Always taking the Company side. Itís just tiring. How about the Company has walked back their demands? I am sure where their demands are now are less than when the process started.
One example. Our vacation ask was a minimum of 256 hours assuming we did not get a improvement in ADG which was also a ask. More if we get a ADG improvement. Current vacation is 126 hours. Let me know how we did when a TA is released.
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Old 11-19-2022, 04:54 AM
  #183  
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Originally Posted by Trip7 View Post
Word on the street is full retro is unlikely and that the mediator sides with the company about exempting 2020.

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precedent from the railroad union PEB would make me believe otherwise.
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Old 11-19-2022, 04:55 AM
  #184  
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Originally Posted by Broncos View Post
This notion of no retro for 2020 is yet another management trial balloon. Covid may have happened in 2020, but we STILL worked. Inflation STILL happened. FULL Retro to the Amendable Date, not one day less.
Trial balloon and look who is floating it, ole Trip. Just shocked. Must be one of his 16 cash flow businessí.
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Old 11-19-2022, 05:13 AM
  #185  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun View Post
One example. Our vacation ask was a minimum of 256 hours assuming we did not get a improvement in ADG which was also a ask. More if we get a ADG improvement. Current vacation is 126 hours. Let me know how we did when a TA is released.
Iím pretty sure youíre not so obtuse to not understand that openers are never closers.
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Old 11-19-2022, 05:25 AM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by Gspeed View Post
Iím pretty sure youíre not so obtuse to not understand that openers are never closers.
I do understand that. I also understand that under the RLA wild openers lead to long delayed closers.
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Old 11-19-2022, 05:26 AM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by Gspeed View Post
Iím pretty sure youíre not so obtuse to not understand that openers are never closers.
Hes saying openers set the tone and the company can somehow get out of negotiating because we start high. Been years hes been at this from my limited memory and limited time working here.

If we'd be more reasonable, the company wouldnt negotiate down theyd just give us our ask and we will make out better. Management wants that for us, for us to make more money, they just ask we set the right tone and and right sized ask during negotiations. Theyll be so excited theyll say yes approve it immediately and not talk us lower.

You see its like a game of how many beans are in the jar. If we guess right, or close, we get all the beans.
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Old 11-19-2022, 05:31 AM
  #188  
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Originally Posted by Trip7 View Post
Word on the street is full retro is unlikely and that the mediator sides with the company about exempting 2020.

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Word on the chat board is that people are expecting 6 figure checks. You, you are the word, not some fictitious scuttlebut appeasers are whispering.
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Old 11-19-2022, 05:33 AM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun View Post
One example. Our vacation ask was a minimum of 256 hours assuming we did not get a improvement in ADG which was also a ask. More if we get a ADG improvement. Current vacation is 126 hours. Let me know how we did when a TA is released.

Sailing,

Not quite sure the point you are trying to make here. Of course the "ask" will be greater than the "get." That is bargaining after all as you always point out. I realize that you are getting challenged on your C-2019 predictions but you know what - Covid happened. We can't go back and run non-Covid scenarios, so we will never know if DALPAs strategy would have been a Grand Slam, a single, a strike out, or a bases loaded inning ending double play. DALPA is of course at bat in this fictional baseball game. And yes management is banging on trash cans in the dugout every inning when they are at bat.

I assume you are saying the ask was out of the zone of reasonableness. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but once again - Covid happened so we will never know. You seem to prefer on time short steady gains which one strategy and people always bring up the TVM to defend this strategy. What about the Time Value of Compounding (TVC)? I am pretty sure that I just made that up so I will explain with notional numbers.

If it takes an extra year to get a contract with 2% higher rates we always here about the lost income waiting that additional year and it may be a short term loss on a single contract cycle. But what if that 2% boosts all subsequent contracts by 2%. How does 10-20 or even 30 years at 2% greater pay compare with a 1 year loss of a pay raise?

My long-winded point here is that there are No absolutes in contract negotiations. We strive for the best we can get and all we can compare it to is hypotheticals.

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Old 11-19-2022, 05:37 AM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun View Post
I do understand that. I also understand that under the RLA wild openers lead to long delayed closers.
Have you been in the actual room? I have, it doesnít work that way, at all.
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