They don't think they're dead. I get a pathetic email at least once a week touting their achievements and asking me for money.

Rather than dredging up your disappointments from 2012 why don't you and Carl ensure we do better in 2015 by getting on the team.

We just need Bill Lumberg to pop up and Sailingfun to mention the 49ers at Cathay.

Almost all the guys I fly with agree C2012 was BS, never again most say. Should be interesting.

Actually, I was told that it had to do with the fact that European labor contracts are not public documents in the same sense that our are, and that they are generally held very close to the vest.

I am not certain whether that remains the case or not.

Wow! I generally don't agree with much of what you write here. But that statement is absolutely spot on and cuts right to the chase. Gotta give credit where credit is due! :)

So when does DALPA declare an objective and then develop a plan for rectifying this situation? When do they even start? We're going on 10 years and counting and, so far, no cigar. Are you going to hold them accountable for doing (or not doing) this? Or have you given up on it and just wanted to vent a little? :confused:

Vent? Me? Never, other than about sniping and cries of "Woe is me!!";)

Seriously, I hold my reps accountable in each and every vote and each and every phone call and email I send their way. As you and I have discovered in recent exchanges, we look at the past ten years through very different glasses (half full vs. half empty) and thus have different perspectives about their strategies and successes (or lack thereof).

And therein lies the beauty of individual thought and expression.

Vive le difference!!!

You really believe negotiations will be done in that time frame? Have you seen the industries performance? In my 20+ years, never when the airlines are doing well are negotiations done in a timely manner. Ever.

Exhibit A: SWA

Exhibit B: FDX

Again. You are wrong.

From the earlier post:

COMPENSATION: All 12 year rates. 777 rates reflect group 4 which include 777, 767-4, 787, 340.

So, follow here.

American pilots are paid in bands.

Americans groups 5 rates include 747 A 380

Americans group 4 rates included 777, 76-4, 787, 340

Delta bands of course are 747/777

Followed by 76-4/A330

In order to compare an APPLE to an APPLE, one has to take AMRs group 4 and compare to our 76-4/a330 band.

Take note. To be equal in bands, we would have to have OUR a330 pay the same as our 777. They are all in the same band at American-USAirways.

Now, look at the figures. Again.

DALPA can't set an objective until the pilots have had a chance to voice their priorities via contract survey (and maybe Wilson polling?).

That would be very "top down", and Carl wouldn't like that. I wouldn't like it either, the mandate and leverage comes from pilot participation!

We all need to start promoting unity and participation to each other, 24% RCC survey participation, 58% contract survey participation, and green bag tags and alt tie pins(thankfully those are becoming more scarce) convey a message that Delta Pilots are NOT serious about improving their position and standing together.

Support ALPA.
Support your MEC.
Support your NC.
Vocally and visibly.

Oh. You mean like they did with C2012. Got it. My bad. :rolleyes:

I don't doubt that you did "help" when asked by Kingsley. I also have no doubt that you and the ousted committee guys worked to destroy him in meetings right afterwards. It wasn't personal against Kingsley, it was just business. The business of getting yourselves reinstalled in your committee seats. Because what was/is most important to you guys was to stop the growing tide of reps actually exercising their power and calling the bluff of you subject matter experts. While you've found your way back to the trough, none of the others have. And since the 117 debacle, an additional holdover from the bad old days on the negotiating committee is now gone too. All in all, we're making progress I think.

Nor should anyone believe the revisionist history of folks like you who are desperately trying to repair your images. I believe what I hear and read after I examine and cross examine it. If everyone else does the same, I think we'll be just fine.

Carl

Got it. You're good with performance ("success") that yields a 34% cut in buying power 7 years after the "crisis" is over and during times of unprecedented profits and outlook for our company... and with no apparent intent to do a whole lot better than that going forward. "Vive le difference" indeed! :rolleyes: