Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit (Post 1720152)

"The Contract survey is the first step towards a strike vote"
-Capt. Donatelli

What has more leverage for Negotiators: a 53% turnout for a strike vote or 99% turnout for a strike vote?

If we get 99% of our fellow pilots to do the survey, it gives the NC a strong mandate at the table to get much more of what we ask.

If only half do the survey, well, that's not nearly the same amount of leverage for the NC is it?

Are you going to help IMPROVE the NC's leverage to get a better deal or are you going to REDUCE the NC's leverage?

If you are satisfied with 4/8/3/3 sure, let's have only 53% do the survey again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonRicco (Post 1720166)

I have to agree with Shiz on this, and I guess Carl as well. Pilots give input/direction in many different ways. Look at the CDO issue, there was no survey or poll (that I know of anyway) but pilots gave input directly to their reps and were heard.

With a 53 percent response rate on a survey, that certainly leaves the door open that 47 percent of pilots with differing (or maybe the same) views gave input to their reps in alternative ways and unless we consider the survey the ultimate mandate, that form of input must be factored in as well.

How do you make the survey the ultimate, or at least the heaviest weighted mandate? 100 percent participation. For every pilot that refuses to fill it out, the less statistically valid it becomes.

Say we only end up with 40 percent that fill it out this time and the vote on CDO's is slightly "no", but the squeaky wheel this time happens to be people that are in favor. The rep is going to have to make more of a judgement call when it come to saying "no to cdo" than he otherwise would have if the participation rate was 100 percent.

The survey is but one form of input. The less participation, the more discretion you are giving to your reps. For me, that isn't exactly an option I am thrilled about considering the 117 issue.....

The results are held secret. The participation rate can be a secret too. There is no accountability with our survey. I am not going to participate. I don't believe my results make a difference. I did not always feel this way. The last contract was just so far off from what I wanted that I find it hard to believe that ALPA considered it. I can't be the only one that feels this way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 1720250)

Hockey, perhaps you could reconsider your participation? I totally understand your sentiment and agree. But I think of it in a different way. Give them as much data/input as possible so that when they ignore it, that only reflects poorly on them. It's only a moral victory for sure, but I can look at myself in the mirror that way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 1720250)

I don't believe my results make a difference. I did not always feel this way. The last contract was just so far off from what I wanted that I find it hard to believe that ALPA considered it. I can't be the only one that feels this way.

You do realize this is a union with about 12,000 members? There are things were asked in the C2012 survey and said I really wanted them (holiday pay) that didn't get into C2012. Does that mean that ALPA didn't consider it? Of course not - it just means that the Neg committee decided that there were other, higher priorities. That's what we pay ALPA for - to get the best overall deal for us.

You're nuts if you think that the union is going to walk into the negotiations with all of the 12,000 pilots demands and say "all or nothing".

Quote:

Originally Posted by orvil (Post 1720216)

I completed the survey. I commented on a few items. I made a good effort. I believe I saw most of the pitfalls.

It did seem like it was composed by a dysfunctional family. My conclusion after completing the process, I definitely felt that I was being steered. Maybe someone had good intentions, but they got bulldozed by the others.

As intellectual exercise it would be interesting to have a professional pollster red pencil the survey.

Agree, it seemed to be put together by a committee. Some mult choice questions didn't have the option I was looking for. Same on the age 60 retirement survey, I wanted it changed, but lowered, not raised to 65.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 1720250)

The results are held secret. The participation rate can be a secret too. There is no accountability with our survey.

I can see where you're coming from. We are forced to take DALPA's word. And they don't inspire much trustworthiness:

- CDOs.
- ALV+15
- contractually granted sick leave harassment
- reduced profit sharing to fund our own raises
- "fleeting opportunities"
- 50 seat bailout, more large RJs
- FUD campaign for 717s
- I could go on and on.

Did anyone put those in a survey? Hell, no.

And TO claimed he heard us "loud and clear." Pathetic

How do we really know that 53% (or whatever number DALPA gave for doing the last survey) is accurate? How do we know the real number wasn't 95%...and DALPA released a bogus number as an excuse for their poor performance on C12?

There is zero accountability.

Having said that, I'm still going to do the survey. That way when they say "no one wanted ______" even though it was on my (and probably others') surveys, I can call them out on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceman49 (Post 1720230)

The 330 does have a hot mike feature.

Thanks, Delta must not know about it!

Open talk of Skymark being bought by ANA. Their A380's might be back on and operated in Japan's domestic market. Much of Delta's exclusion seems to be part and parcel of Japanese nationalism, not specific to us.

We are not currently codesharing out of NRT.

If ANA is allowed to operated the A380 in HND, then it will be difficult to keep other airlines A380's and 747's out. Currently the A380 is not allowed during the day since separation requirements would reduce the operational capacity of HND.

I had written that Delta could be expected to pursue a mutually beneficial arrangement with SkyMark and we as labor would have to keep our eyes on the deal, but, it looks like Delta's role in Japan is waning.

While catching up on Asia news, I ran across an interesting caveat of Japanese regulation.

In order to avoid "virtual air carriers" (like DCI is) the Japanese restrict the mainline partner to a codeshare which can only sell 25% of tickets on a trunk route and 50% on a secondary (regional) route. This allows the major to help the regional with route development while avoiding the mess race to the bottom (alter ego) carriers we have in the United States.

IMHO, the safety issue with these carriers was not the inexperience of the crews, but the development of virtual carriers who lack local accountability. The commoditization of small jet flying and resultant cost pressures relegated their "safety culture" to a forgotten notion.

Putting some skin back in the game might be a more sensible economic way forward. Wonder if we could win through regulation what Sailing, Slowplay and TSquare would otherwise fight for fear of losing the benefits of outsourcing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiznit (Post 1720152)

Are you going to help IMPROVE the NC's leverage to get a better deal or are you going to REDUCE the NC's leverage?

How does the percentage of survey completions create or diminish "leverage" to the NC?

Does DALPA tell the company how many surveys were done prior to negotiating?

Is there a provision in our contract that prohibits the company from building CDOs now?

I'd like to fly NRT as a turn using frms.