Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1720660)

It's all about unity and how the company views pilot sympathies. If only 30% of the pilots bother to fill out the survey the company is going to assume the pilots are satisfied with the status quo. Just as we have to put together a negotiating position management also must go through the same exercise. The degree of pilot unification and activity in the union they see will influence their budget for a new contract.

Originally Posted by Scoop (Post 1720667)

Devils Advocate time: Since the survey results are not released - why should DALPA release the participation percentage? The exact same logic used not release the survey results could also be used not to release participation numbers. :confused:

Scoop

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1720655)

Because some pilots have expressed a interest in flying them and their reps have asked. Should they be ignored? That is why you have a survey! If a majority of the pilots don't want them you move on and have it documented.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1720660)

It's all about unity and how the company views pilot sympathies. If only 30%

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1720655)

Because some pilots have expressed a interest in flying them and their reps have asked. Should they be ignored? That is why you have a survey! If a majority of the pilots don't want them you move on and have it documented.

Originally Posted by index (Post 1720704)

Huh? Didn't we deal with this issue just a few months ago???? Didn't the TA get sent back because the MEC heard us "loud and clear"???? Yet here they are again. I thought we already moved on. Apparently not.

Ten Years Gone said it perfectly. A great many pilots, myself included, want restoration. No mention of that anywhere in the survey. Why were we ignored? Ya think fewer pilots want restoration as opposed to CDOs?

Originally Posted by RonRicco (Post 1720166)

I have to agree with Shiz on this, and I guess Carl as well. Pilots give input/direction in many different ways. Look at the CDO issue, there was no survey or poll (that I know of anyway) but pilots gave input directly to their reps and were heard.

With a 53 percent response rate on a survey, that certainly leaves the door open that 47 percent of pilots with differing (or maybe the same) views gave input to their reps in alternative ways and unless we consider the survey the ultimate mandate, that form of input must be factored in as well.

How do you make the survey the ultimate, or at least the heaviest weighted mandate? 100 percent participation. For every pilot that refuses to fill it out, the less statistically valid it becomes.

Say we only end up with 40 percent that fill it out this time and the vote on CDO's is slightly "no", but the squeaky wheel this time happens to be people that are in favor. The rep is going to have to make more of a judgement call when it come to saying "no to cdo" than he otherwise would have if the participation rate was 100 percent.

The survey is but one form of input. The less participation, the more discretion you are giving to your reps. For me, that isn't exactly an option I am thrilled about considering the 117 issue.....

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1720774)

I agree with everything you said (and Shiz), and I would like to add this:

This survey is wide-open. It leaves our contract wide-open. It gives the people that will sacrifice everything for a % or two their best opening in decades. So there is no middle ground on some of the more controversial concessions we are voluntarily (and very strangely) putting on the table.

This is going to be either the moment where apathy lets the flight ho's win the day (and kill our contract) OR the moment when we hand a clean, unequivocal "no concession" mandate to our reps and NC.

Don't kid yourself into thinking the TA vote is going to be the pivotal moment, because TA's pass. It's what they so. THIS is the moment. If you can't be bothered to do the survey, you lose the right to complaint to the fellow pilot you're stabbing in the heart. This is as big a deal as a strike vote.

1). Study the survey.
2). Look for pitfalls and weigh them carefully.
3). SAVE the survey before submiiting.
4). Perform steps 1-3 a few times.
5). Submit the survey.

Originally Posted by TenYearsGone (Post 1720685)

I know more than some pilots have expressed interest in restoration but I did not see anything in the survey about that. The percentage questions on DOS gives examples of no greater than 12%.

Just say'n

TEN

Originally Posted by index (Post 1720704)

Huh? Didn't we deal with this issue just a few months ago???? Didn't the TA get sent back because the MEC heard us "loud and clear"???? Yet here they are again. I thought we already moved on. Apparently not.

Ten Years Gone said it perfectly. A great many pilots, myself included, want restoration. No mention of that anywhere in the survey. Why were we ignored? Ya think fewer pilots want restoration as opposed to CDOs?