[QUOTE=tsquare;919196]How do you figure? Show me your math? Are you saying that there will be no raises unless we maintain the current retardation of pay? This is classic... the keepers of the flame have the absolute ONLY answer to any of the questions, and will poo poo or squash anything that doesn't fit their mantra. OK Einstein.. show me your math. And don't try to flip the argument... you said it couldn't be done because "it's just math" Prove to me there is only one way to skin the cat and I will forever shut up.[/QUOTE


This type of pay system has been looked at many times. There was a excellent letter that was about 2 pages long that talked of all the pros and cons of going to this type of system. I wish I still had a copy of the letter because there were lots of issues that most would not even think about that it causes. The one interesting conclusion was that it would not reduce overall training nearly as much as most people believe. The total training reduction was expected to only be in the 15 to 20 percent range. In addition you would have to rebid the system. That rebid would create a massive training load over 2 to 3 year period. It also of course eliminates all pay raises from new equipment. I was at first interested as it would have benefited but after reading a well researched letter and talking with a few others it became clear that the current system is flawed but better.

The benefit is if you're on reserve you'd get your days off restored. So you'll make more money but it won't be double pay, just straight add pay and payback days.

Thanks Super

Since I am over ALV and a REG line holder normally not much benefit for a GS. I think I will just enjoy the next 2 weeks at home. ;)

Nope.. I don't buy that "you have to rebid the system" It can be handled thru the normal AE process. We don't HAVE to do anything that we don't set up in the contract. As far as the training is concerned... I don't care. This is not (necessarily) about saving the company money. It is about maximizing OUR pay over the course of a career. What we have now fails... miserably... I'm going to TRY to refrain from this discussion anymore... you are either interested.. or you're not.. and I am not going to change anybody's mind here.

Merry Christmas

Changing the pay system will not change the amount of money Delta can spend on the pilots. The amount spent on the pilot contract will be the same no matter what pay system we have. So how are you going to swith to longevity pay without screwing some pilots while rewarding others?

Add to that, the current system is in the best interest of most pilots. Pick what is important to you....chase quality of life or chase the money.

Seniority is bidding power, and longevity is buying power. Any airline that has had a merger that used anything besides category/status and or furloughs has this.

Guys that bypass furlough will enjoy better biding power with their seniority that they keep, but may have less longevity than a guy below them, so they get paid at a lower hourly rate for the same work. That is not the hurdle.

*Not supporting this type of system, but pointing out a fact.

There is probably more than a couple of different compensation revamp options available to the pilot group that would be beneficial to some and detrimental to others.
Longevity pay would be make some happy and make others upset. While I do agree that the system now has become a little over-complicated with so many different aircraft types and categories, the bottom line is it would be impractical, if not impossible, to create a system that will be beneficial everybody.

The point is it is impractical to think that we will be able to devise a compensation program that will be beneficial to everyone. Not saying we shouldn't be considering ways to improve compensation, but I think venturing on a project such as this will require a significant amount of collateral contract changes that we may not anticipate.
Managements is extremely versed in it's ability to work a PWA into a way that is beneficial to them and detrimental to us.
Face the facts they are better at it then we are.
Coming into a the first few profitable quarters after a 10 year stint of ongoing losses, while still working under a bankruptcy contract, begs at least one question in my mind:
How "creative" do we really want to get approaching the 2012 contract?

I am not endorsing or opposing a new pay system, however if we were to switch, the company would simply determine what the internal rate of return would be on the investment to switch with the costs being additional training in the near term. You can't tell me that for the company to realize a 15 to 20 percent reduction in training (into perpetuity) they would not be interested. That would be a significant reduction and if it is the case and we made the switch, I would expect that we should share the benefit.

What airline code is RS on travelnet? What priority does RS travel on an ASA flight? I know I'm an S3C on an ASA flight.

It's Regional Elite Services. I thought they traveled S3C also. But I'm not sure on that.