I went to CDG on Friday and checked the loads on Travelnet-AF has 5 flights a day from JFK. A-380, 2 777's, A340, and one A330. We get one light twin.

Before the AF codeshare we had 1 flight a day to Paris Orly from JFK and one from ATL. We could not even get into CDG. How many total flights to Paris do we have today?

04-16-2012 | 03:50 AM

#95852

Columbia

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Business & Technology | Boeing's key Wichita supplier hit hard by tornado | Seattle Times Newspaper

This might change the details on a 717/737 swap.

04-16-2012 | 04:38 AM

#95853

scambo1

The Brown Dot +1

Joined: Jun 2009

Posts: 7,775

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From: 777B

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgetg

As long as there is a domestic codeshare with AS the "line in the sand" about 76-seats at DCI seems academic to me:

AS can carry 86 pax per plane, DCI caps out at 76
AS can perform up to 25% of all hub-to-hub flying, DCI is limited to 6%

So in a nutshell AS can do more than four times the hub-to-hub flying compared to what DCI is permitted to fly, and SEA and LAX are specifically excluded as hubs...

I want that type of scope closed, pronto. Same goes for Virgin Australia and the imminent JV:

VA gets 3 LAX Australia flights, DAL get one
VA flies 777-300, DAL flies 777-200
Vigin Australia pilots connect beyond pax in Australia
In the US AS, DCI and Delta share beyond passengers

All of this is possible as long as Delta maintains 4 flights/week to Australia.
In return Delta can place it's code on unlimited VA flights so long as it's not more than 175 pax

In speaking to other pilots recently I noticed that many seem unaware or uninformed about these arrangements, perhaps because the side of the plane doesn't sport the name Delta "as part of a phrase," but the threat from domestic codeshare and international JVs is real and we are contractually naked when it comes to either...
As crappy as the current 3-year open compliance window is for our AFKLM/AZ JV, the rest of that agreement still is some of the best codeshare language we have. Close the 3 year window and make it right and I won't have complaints...
Looking ahead debating the 76-seat conundrum seems petty considering multinational JVs.

What if Delta entered into a JV with Emirates tomorrow?

As it stands today our PWA, Delta could place 175 pax on every Emirates flight...so long as there were 4 Delta flights per week to DXB,
Closing that loophole is a much more pressing concern. What is the CASM for Emirates on the 777-300ER, or the A380?

Cheers
George

George;

Great BIG picture post.

04-16-2012 | 04:52 AM

#95854

Herkflyr

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From: Road construction signholder

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun

Before the AF codeshare we had 1 flight a day to Paris Orly from JFK and one from ATL. We could not even get into CDG. How many total flights to Paris do we have today?

Careful now. You are actually injecting facts into the equation...strictly verboten here! They aren't as much fun as venting.

04-16-2012 | 05:03 AM

#95855

hoserpilot

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From: maddoggy dog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

... and it is perhaps more complex than that. There is some fear that if ALPA brought the 76 seater to mainline for competitive pay that it would cannibalize MD90/737/757 flying. Part of the reasoning for keeping it off the property was to limit its numbers.

I don't buy this. NWA had tons of dc-9s which are/were the same size as the current rj's. Those old fashioned mainline Douglas rj's did not limit NWA's larger aircraft flying. If anything it supplied mainline pay and customer service which helped increase the number of larger aircraft at Northwest. Bring the rj's here, I'll fly 'em!

04-16-2012 | 05:26 AM

#95856

Bucking Bar

Can't abide NAI

Joined: Jun 2007

Posts: 12,078

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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoserpilot

I don't buy this7. NWA haad tons of dc-9s which are/were the same size as the current rj's. Those old fashioned mainline Douglas rj's did not limit NWA's larger aircraft flying. If anything it supplied mainline pay and customer service which helped increase the number of larger aircraft at Northwest. Bring the rj's here, I'll fly 'em!

Again ... you have to view the service from a cost perspective.

and ... this was the reason a former Delta MEC Chairman gave ... not mine & I don't agree with him. I'm just pointing out that there are many people who think CRj 900's at mainline (or 717's or any small jet) are a threat to flying by larger aircraft.

04-16-2012 | 05:31 AM

#95857

hoserpilot

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From: maddoggy dog

Bar, I get what your saying but northwest is our mainline example that it didn't happen to them and shouldn't happen to us. Seems like fear mongering. Hopefully that negative attitude is why he is the former mec chair. Seems like he was speaking out of both sides of his mouth. Rj's threaten mainline flying if we outsource to the regionals and they threaten mainline flying if we insource them. I say bullspit!! We know outsourcing killed our domestic mainline flying and we also know dc9's are good for us.

04-16-2012 | 05:51 AM

#95858

nwa757

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From: Airbus

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

As it stands right now, 50% of all DL departures are not flown by DL pilots. Anderson himself agrees that DL pilots should be up front, apparently.

He has remarks about his at 27:10.....

Richard Anderson Remarks at Aviation Summit - C-SPAN Video Library

I would hope he feels the same way whether its a 747 into NRT or a CRJ900 into SLC.

04-16-2012 | 05:54 AM

#95859

forgot to bid

veut gagner à la loterie

Joined: Apr 2008

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From: Light Chop

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun

Before the AF codeshare we had 1 flight a day to Paris Orly from JFK and one from ATL. We could not even get into CDG. How many total flights to Paris do we have today?

According to Travelnet the total number of Delta mainline flights from ATL to CDG on 4/16/2012 is 1.

It is a lone 763 that leaves at 15:15. We also codeshare on two AF B772 flights that leave at 1755 and 2330.

According to Travelnet the total number of Delta mainline flights from ATL to JFK on 4/16/2012 is 1.

It is a lone 763 that leaves at 2040. We codeshare on 5 other JFK-CDG flights which are on a AF 332, 772, 388, 343 and a 772.

By the way, what was wrong with Orly? I wouldn't imagine a whole lot of AF/KLM passengers are connecting on us via a 763 when there are so many super premium AF flying back and forth? I realize though it got us into LHR though.

Open question to anyone: What I don't understand is if AF/KLM pilots are paid better than us then why are we not flying more than they? I thought pilot pay was the lone factor in determining if a flight gets outsourced or is that just when it comes to RJs?

Last edited by forgot to bid; 04-16-2012 at 06:10 AM.

04-16-2012 | 06:00 AM

#95860

forgot to bid

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From: Light Chop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

or

Again ... you have to view the service from a cost perspective.

and ... this was the reason a former Delta MEC Chairman gave ... not mine & I don't agree with him. I'm just pointing out that there are many people who think CRj 900's at mainline (or 717's or any small jet) are a threat to flying by larger aircraft.

A fun question to have answered, and it'd never be answered, but what would Delta's fleet look like if they could have it the way they really wanted given the current OEM offerings?

And what I mean is if network was in full control and everything was at mainline.