Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor?
12-15-2015 | 06:52 PM
#1772
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,485
Likes: 495
For those on the outside looking in I am pleased to report that people like this are in the minority. This point of view is the unfortunate byproduct of a terrible time in the airline industry exacerbated by manipulative management. This deal is a departure from those bad times. This deal takes us forward, maybe not as fast as we would like but it is in the right direction.
When it comes to resentment learn to deal with this and move on. I have heard Delta Air Lines is looking to see if you are deeply resentful during interview. The signs of which will most likely lead to them passing on your services.
On a different not the $39 per hour FO doesn't need a hike in pay just an upgrade. This package helps get bodies in the door. Bodies in the door helps aircraft come back from the desert. Aircraft coming back from the desert need captains. Those captains will be first officers who want to upgrade. The first officer upgrading will go from $39 per hour to something north of $70 depending on longevity. This $31 bump in pay will far exceed a increase in bonus to new hires. Growth is good and if this means upping bonus for new hires then I say "UP BONUS FOR NEW HIRES."
When it comes to resentment learn to deal with this and move on. I have heard Delta Air Lines is looking to see if you are deeply resentful during interview. The signs of which will most likely lead to them passing on your services.
On a different not the $39 per hour FO doesn't need a hike in pay just an upgrade. This package helps get bodies in the door. Bodies in the door helps aircraft come back from the desert. Aircraft coming back from the desert need captains. Those captains will be first officers who want to upgrade. The first officer upgrading will go from $39 per hour to something north of $70 depending on longevity. This $31 bump in pay will far exceed a increase in bonus to new hires. Growth is good and if this means upping bonus for new hires then I say "UP BONUS FOR NEW HIRES."
12-15-2015 | 07:05 PM
#1773
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
So you're saying take this and live to fight another day. Quite a change from the 2007 "**** new FOs" mantra by 9E ALPA for the payraise LOA they turned down. And your theory all falls apart when there are no upgrades. Then they are still stuck at $39/hr and that is a problem. You can't control when planes come and go, but you can control your payrate you have while all that crap happens.
12-15-2015 | 08:37 PM
#1775
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,142
Likes: 4
From: FIRE ALPA
Nope, at the moment it looks like early 2008 (turning every rock looking for a newhire).... what happened by the end of 2008??? Oh that's right, total stagnation. What happened next? Eventual furloughs and downgrades followed by mass exodus from the bottom half of the list in the face of bankruptcy.
Am I saying that's what's coming in 2016? No, but will it happen in this industry again? You dang well better count on it. The airlines are fighting harder than anything to repeal or at least greatly reduce the 1500 hour rule, and unfortunately it sounds like they are going to succeed. They've already letter of interpretation'd their way out of most of the improvements that FAR 117 was supposed to provide (oh but we still get to be scheduled for that extra hour of flying every day)
Sorry if I am feeling like I'm being hustled by used Kirby salesmen from both sides right now...
Am I saying that's what's coming in 2016? No, but will it happen in this industry again? You dang well better count on it. The airlines are fighting harder than anything to repeal or at least greatly reduce the 1500 hour rule, and unfortunately it sounds like they are going to succeed. They've already letter of interpretation'd their way out of most of the improvements that FAR 117 was supposed to provide (oh but we still get to be scheduled for that extra hour of flying every day)
Sorry if I am feeling like I'm being hustled by used Kirby salesmen from both sides right now...
12-15-2015 | 08:59 PM
#1776
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
From: LAV
Nope, at the moment it looks like early 2008 (turning every rock looking for a newhire).... what happened by the end of 2008??? Oh that's right, total stagnation. What happened next? Eventual furloughs and downgrades followed by mass exodus from the bottom half of the list in the face of bankruptcy.
Am I saying that's what's coming in 2016? No, but will it happen in this industry again? You dang well better count on it. The airlines are fighting harder than anything to repeal or at least greatly reduce the 1500 hour rule, and unfortunately it sounds like they are going to succeed. They've already letter of interpretation'd their way out of most of the improvements that FAR 117 was supposed to provide (oh but we still get to be scheduled for that extra hour of flying every day)
Sorry if I am feeling like I'm being hustled by used Kirby salesmen from both sides right now...
Am I saying that's what's coming in 2016? No, but will it happen in this industry again? You dang well better count on it. The airlines are fighting harder than anything to repeal or at least greatly reduce the 1500 hour rule, and unfortunately it sounds like they are going to succeed. They've already letter of interpretation'd their way out of most of the improvements that FAR 117 was supposed to provide (oh but we still get to be scheduled for that extra hour of flying every day)
Sorry if I am feeling like I'm being hustled by used Kirby salesmen from both sides right now...
All of those ultra old guys/gals at Delta, United and American have to die sometime if they're not retiring (who in the heck want's to be working past 65 anyway?) There's no way "total stagnation" will rein again for any lengthy time soon.
12-15-2015 | 09:07 PM
#1777
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
From: LAV
If you look back even further, there were guys who had to to pay for their training after getting hired by a regional.
We've gone from having to pay for your own training after getting hired > not having to pay for your training (not getting paid for training) > getting paid for your training > getting paid for your training as well as a completion bonus.
Sure you can look back at all the negatives and try to conservatively plan on more negatives to come, but you've got to admit, in recent years (the last 2-4 years in the quick changing regional world) there have been more positives than negatives.
We've gone from having to pay for your own training after getting hired > not having to pay for your training (not getting paid for training) > getting paid for your training > getting paid for your training as well as a completion bonus.
Sure you can look back at all the negatives and try to conservatively plan on more negatives to come, but you've got to admit, in recent years (the last 2-4 years in the quick changing regional world) there have been more positives than negatives.
12-15-2015 | 09:32 PM
#1778
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,142
Likes: 4
From: FIRE ALPA
If you look back even further, there were guys who had to to pay for their training after getting hired by a regional.
We've gone from having to pay for your own training after getting hired > not having to pay for your training (not getting paid for training) > getting paid for your training > getting paid for your training as well as a completion bonus.
Sure you can look back at all the negatives and try to conservatively plan on more negatives to come, but you've got to admit, in recent years (the last 2-4 years in the quick changing regional world) there have been more positives than negatives.
We've gone from having to pay for your own training after getting hired > not having to pay for your training (not getting paid for training) > getting paid for your training > getting paid for your training as well as a completion bonus.
Sure you can look back at all the negatives and try to conservatively plan on more negatives to come, but you've got to admit, in recent years (the last 2-4 years in the quick changing regional world) there have been more positives than negatives.
Last edited by Avroman; 12-15-2015 at 09:43 PM.
12-15-2015 | 10:53 PM
#1779
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
Yes, thank you. If you're a perspective applicant or a new hire, please take the stuff on here with a grain of salt. It's a pretty narrow cross section that posts in here. Many have an axe to grind. Some don't even work here anymore. And most will not be happy unless they eventually get to say "see, I told you". Which of course they never will.
The vast majority of line pilots at Endeavor are great people and very professional aviators and we will welcome you with open arms.
See you on the line!
The vast majority of line pilots at Endeavor are great people and very professional aviators and we will welcome you with open arms.
See you on the line!
Yes, totally agree with the above. A year ago, I would have told everyone to go elsewhere, but today, this place is a good place to work. Good equipment, good maintenance, good training, and management treats you pretty well now. Add to that top pay for first year FOs at $57000- thats a pretty good deal.
Im happy for the new guys coming on finally earning the pay they deserve and the pay we all should have gotten when we started. I do wish they would have taken care of the current pilot group a little better that just a 3k raise-but I will take it. As a 4ish year FO I have 17-18 days off next month and this year I will have made $67K. If the hiring happens, perhaps an upgrade in 12-18 months???? Who knows.
12-16-2015 | 03:02 AM
#1780
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
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