I am not seeing how the Envoy deal is better - the numbers don't add up. Adding in upgrade time it isn't even close. What numbers are you looking at? Depends on how much value you put on the flow I guess. Without a number walking in the door I wouldn't put much value on it. The EtD deal might of had more value than the American flow at Envoy and that failed.

 

Depends on the personal situation. People without a college degree and or background issues may value the flow more. But I generally agree with your statement.

 

Compass guys didnt have a number. When they were sold off the whole list flowed. Nearly 100 guys from mesaba flowed. Envoy guys are already flowing and will continue at a higher rate.

Theres a lot of criticism about flows, i personally have none butsome flows are better than others. Flows are real, even if you dont "believe in them", the terms shape a flow and no one is pretending to be expert enough on them to judge one against another. The new hire really determines the worth and thats a little counterintuative.

The EtD had 22 pilots worth of value in 6months 8 are still here. Idk man, if the EtD brought any value it wouldn't have been trashed.

 

Most people around here are well versed in how the Compass and Mesaba flows played out. To me it seems the flow (or maybe a convenient base) is the only piece that would even remotely make the Envoy deal higher value than the current Endeavor package. That is taking a giant leap of faith putting value on the flow, American's history with flows is fairly suspect. Go read back through the old Eagle threads and see how well American was honoring their flow agreement.

 

In my experience few people understand at any of our 3 companies that compass flow was inside nwa cba section one and mesaba's was a gift with a few strings attached. Ive sat in the crew room listening to made up crap for years and hacks pretending to be lawyers trying to explain away facts. You see the same bs on here.

While I won't be digging up any old threads with angry pilots making stuff up about their flow, I have had eagle guys explain some of it. Again, flows are nebulous in their terms, and unless the flow is captured in the mainline cba (loa or otherwise) it isnt airtight. But if mainline doesn't follow through with their promises, torches will burn. Mainline will prop up failing regionals staffing models with promises for future jobs, delta will do it too at some point, even though delta hr says they never will. And pilots they'll never ease scope again either. No one will go through a bankruptcy either and we'll stick to our corporate goals too. Core values. Blah blah blah. Synergy!

Aure, the American flow is garbage under some circumstances, and so is the interview program here and endeavor. All things being equal a flow with guaranteed numbers moving on is better than a guaranteed interview with no contractual enforcement,

 

Well said....this guy gets it

 

I'm happy for Envoy and PSA pilots for getting a nice pay bump in addition to their flow. All that means is we have more leverage when the time comes for negotiations. A rising tide lifts all boats....

 

YV FO with ~800 121 time SIC.
YV appears to be a ship taking on water and headed towards an iceberg.. and leadership sees it but keeps going full steam ahead!
Considering a lateral move; what would upgrade at 9E look like for someone like me?
Also, are those retention bonuses only thru '18 or will they continue past that?

 

I think the latest ad says 6-9 months for someone with your time.
Bonus will be rolled into pay rates after program expires.

 

That is the question. Everyone is onboard with extending them. Rumbling from the union was that we'd have something by the end of the year, company wants something (something different than us) yesterday.

Nothing ever happens exactly on time here. Endeavor managment procrastinates or at least that's what it looks like from the cheap seats. If the envoy deal snags enough new hires from us it'll happen soon. If it doesn't itll happen later.