Envoy Vacancy Bid Released
08-09-2015, 07:37 PM
#81
With the Rebel Forces.
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Observing
Posts: 289
Originally Posted by Skyvector
Mention what? Your zany conspiracy theories?
Tell us then, what exactly do you think will happen with a merged seniority list. Will all those pilots all of a sudden magically continue flying past age 65? No?
And there is no provision in Envoy's or Piedmont's flow language about a merged seniority list at mainline. If anything it would increase Envoy's flow since US Air's pilots are that much older than AA's on average. Envoy still gets 50% of each class and Piedmont still gets their share (can't remember the number off the top of my head) and PSA still gets their 4 interviews per month.
Nice try.
Tell us then, what exactly do you think will happen with a merged seniority list. Will all those pilots all of a sudden magically continue flying past age 65? No?
And there is no provision in Envoy's or Piedmont's flow language about a merged seniority list at mainline. If anything it would increase Envoy's flow since US Air's pilots are that much older than AA's on average. Envoy still gets 50% of each class and Piedmont still gets their share (can't remember the number off the top of my head) and PSA still gets their 4 interviews per month.
Nice try.
Hmmm. You two little boys are stupid.
I'll sum up my meaning with 3 words and there's no conspiracy or theory. Just past history and fact.
City pair duplication.
You two kids need to put down the hair gel and video games and take a look back at some previous mergers, check out how that went down. What I mean is this. Both American airlines and u s air fly flights from some of the same cities to some of the same cities. Which they will no longer continue to do after the seniority list gets fully merged and implimented. Don't think so? I'll refer you to the delta/nwa merger. Now suddenly after cutting out the duplication they have extra pilots. If AAG is fat a few hundred or a thousand pilots what will that do to the flow numbers?
--------0-------- flow.
But you guys already figured that out right?
Last edited by Bootleg; 08-09-2015 at 07:48 PM.
08-09-2015, 08:09 PM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,220
Originally Posted by Bootleg
Hmmm. You two little boys are stupid.
I'll sum up my meaning with 3 words and there's no conspiracy or theory. Just past history and fact.
City pair duplication.
You two kids need to put down the hair gel and video games and take a look back at some previous mergers, check out how that went down. What I mean is this. Both American airlines and u s air fly flights from some of the same cities to some of the same cities. Which they will no longer continue to do after the seniority list gets fully merged and implimented. Don't think so? I'll refer you to the delta/nwa merger. Now suddenly after cutting out the duplication they have extra pilots. If AAG is fat a few hundred or a thousand pilots what will that do to the flow numbers?
--------0-------- flow.
But you guys already figured that out right?
I'll sum up my meaning with 3 words and there's no conspiracy or theory. Just past history and fact.
City pair duplication.
You two kids need to put down the hair gel and video games and take a look back at some previous mergers, check out how that went down. What I mean is this. Both American airlines and u s air fly flights from some of the same cities to some of the same cities. Which they will no longer continue to do after the seniority list gets fully merged and implimented. Don't think so? I'll refer you to the delta/nwa merger. Now suddenly after cutting out the duplication they have extra pilots. If AAG is fat a few hundred or a thousand pilots what will that do to the flow numbers?
--------0-------- flow.
But you guys already figured that out right?
Relax man. Everything will be alright...
Have you seen how many pilots will retire between both airlines next year? Take a guess...more than 400. At the end there won't be extra pilots.
Have you take that into consideration? How about 2017 retirements?
08-09-2015, 08:31 PM
#83
With the Rebel Forces.
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Observing
Posts: 289
[QUOTE=PilotJ3;1946497]Well...if you remembered one of the things that drove the merger was that between AA and USAir are not many overlapping routes.
Relax man. Everything will be alright...
Have you seen how many pilots will retire between both airlines next year? Take a guess...more than 400. At the end there won't be extra pilots.
Have you take that into consideration? How about 2017 retirements?[/QUOTE
Yea. No doubt that will help things. But I know how that company lies. I had the displeasure of being there for 8 years. Who the hell knows what will happen. All I do know is that if I were there now as a newer guy I'd be doing everything I could to try to get on with Delta or United. Waiting for something that eagleconvoy promised would give me hives.
Relax man. Everything will be alright...
Have you seen how many pilots will retire between both airlines next year? Take a guess...more than 400. At the end there won't be extra pilots.
Have you take that into consideration? How about 2017 retirements?[/QUOTE
Yea. No doubt that will help things. But I know how that company lies. I had the displeasure of being there for 8 years. Who the hell knows what will happen. All I do know is that if I were there now as a newer guy I'd be doing everything I could to try to get on with Delta or United. Waiting for something that eagleconvoy promised would give me hives.
08-10-2015, 07:18 AM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,145
Originally Posted by sublime259
Question, Cujo...Because envoy management is sending above the required 50% now, does that mean that down the road they could send send less then the required percentage if conditions warrant it in their eyes?
08-10-2015, 07:26 AM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,145
Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw
I have read it. What have I said that isn't true?
The issue I brought up is you once again "carrying the company's water" by touting ad naseaum that LOOK, ENVOY HAS FLOWED 70% OF AA NEW HIRES THIS YEAR. Other than pointing out you wearing the recruiting/management mouthpiece hat, my point was not to expect 70% to continue beyond AAG directly benefiting from it. Expect a decline, hopefully to not any lower than the agreement, but this company does have a history of not giving a crap about agreements and letting arbitrators figure it out YEARS later. We are currently in the lucky position, in this instance, of our desires being aligned.
The issue I brought up is you once again "carrying the company's water" by touting ad naseaum that LOOK, ENVOY HAS FLOWED 70% OF AA NEW HIRES THIS YEAR. Other than pointing out you wearing the recruiting/management mouthpiece hat, my point was not to expect 70% to continue beyond AAG directly benefiting from it. Expect a decline, hopefully to not any lower than the agreement, but this company does have a history of not giving a crap about agreements and letting arbitrators figure it out YEARS later. We are currently in the lucky position, in this instance, of our desires being aligned.
I have no doubt the % will fluctuate; and that's fine as long as we get 50% or better.
08-10-2015, 07:29 AM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 439
Originally Posted by Cujo665
They have to abide by the minimums but are free to send more than required, which is clearly spelled out in the language.
08-10-2015, 07:30 AM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,145
Originally Posted by Bootleg
Hmmm. You two little boys are stupid.
I'll sum up my meaning with 3 words and there's no conspiracy or theory. Just past history and fact.
City pair duplication.
You two kids need to put down the hair gel and video games and take a look back at some previous mergers, check out how that went down. What I mean is this. Both American airlines and u s air fly flights from some of the same cities to some of the same cities. Which they will no longer continue to do after the seniority list gets fully merged and implimented. Don't think so? I'll refer you to the delta/nwa merger. Now suddenly after cutting out the duplication they have extra pilots. If AAG is fat a few hundred or a thousand pilots what will that do to the flow numbers?
--------0-------- flow.
But you guys already figured that out right?
I'll sum up my meaning with 3 words and there's no conspiracy or theory. Just past history and fact.
City pair duplication.
You two kids need to put down the hair gel and video games and take a look back at some previous mergers, check out how that went down. What I mean is this. Both American airlines and u s air fly flights from some of the same cities to some of the same cities. Which they will no longer continue to do after the seniority list gets fully merged and implimented. Don't think so? I'll refer you to the delta/nwa merger. Now suddenly after cutting out the duplication they have extra pilots. If AAG is fat a few hundred or a thousand pilots what will that do to the flow numbers?
--------0-------- flow.
But you guys already figured that out right?
Your fear bomb has very little teeth. This was your big secret conspiracy theory? This is what you accused the union of hiding?? Something that was specifically mentioned already by the DOJ ??
08-10-2015, 07:45 AM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,145
Originally Posted by Sliceback
80% by the end of 2029. Actually 77% but average age at retirement bumps it up to 80%.
That was before the fourth listers retirements get included.
That was before the fourth listers retirements get included.
08-10-2015, 09:19 AM
#90
With the Rebel Forces.
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Observing
Posts: 289
Originally Posted by Cujo665
There is overlap, but not at the level your indicating. It's one of the reasons the DOJ allowed the merge, there wasn't a ton of overlap. Historically you see capacity reductions and potentially even furloughs.... But you didn't have 80% of their pilots retiring within 10 years either.
Your fear bomb has very little teeth. This was your big secret conspiracy theory? This is what you accused the union of hiding?? Something that was specifically mentioned already by the DOJ ??
Your fear bomb has very little teeth. This was your big secret conspiracy theory? This is what you accused the union of hiding?? Something that was specifically mentioned already by the DOJ ??
Fear bomb? Conspiracy theory? Neither.
If you're not management, you should consider applying. You'd go far.
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