Envoy Vacancy Bid Released
08-09-2015 | 03:10 PM
#91
Banned
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 787
Likes: 0
I believe AA looks at it from a "year-end" stand point. So if they spend the first 8 months of a given year sending above the minimum then theoretically they could flow zero in the final four months and still be legal.
However, sending more than required doesn't carry over into the next year. So on January 1st 2016 we are back to zero. However many flowed in 2015 doesn't carry over.
Clear as mud? There may be a point or two I'm forgetting about without sitting down and looking over the exact language...but that's the gist of it.
08-09-2015 | 03:47 PM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
We are entitled to 50%. The agreement says they'll send more when they can.
They are, and are just under 70% for the year.
220 was picked specifically because they didn't know what AA's hiring will be each month for the next 10 years and it gives them a small buffer in case AA classes are smaller than 40 new hires. If classes get too small... Under 220 for the year, we step up in pay above the cap.
There's tons of details people seem to ignore. You might want to go actually read it all before posting your expert analysis
They are, and are just under 70% for the year.
220 was picked specifically because they didn't know what AA's hiring will be each month for the next 10 years and it gives them a small buffer in case AA classes are smaller than 40 new hires. If classes get too small... Under 220 for the year, we step up in pay above the cap.
There's tons of details people seem to ignore. You might want to go actually read it all before posting your expert analysis
The issue I brought up is you once again "carrying the company's water" by touting ad naseaum that LOOK, ENVOY HAS FLOWED 70% OF AA NEW HIRES THIS YEAR. Other than pointing out you wearing the recruiting/management mouthpiece hat, my point was not to expect 70% to continue beyond AAG directly benefiting from it. Expect a decline, hopefully to not any lower than the agreement, but this company does have a history of not giving a crap about agreements and letting arbitrators figure it out YEARS later. We are currently in the lucky position, in this instance, of our desires being aligned.
08-09-2015 | 07:37 PM
#93
With the Rebel Forces.
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
From: Observing
Mention what? Your zany conspiracy theories?
Tell us then, what exactly do you think will happen with a merged seniority list. Will all those pilots all of a sudden magically continue flying past age 65? No?
And there is no provision in Envoy's or Piedmont's flow language about a merged seniority list at mainline. If anything it would increase Envoy's flow since US Air's pilots are that much older than AA's on average. Envoy still gets 50% of each class and Piedmont still gets their share (can't remember the number off the top of my head) and PSA still gets their 4 interviews per month.
Nice try.
Tell us then, what exactly do you think will happen with a merged seniority list. Will all those pilots all of a sudden magically continue flying past age 65? No?
And there is no provision in Envoy's or Piedmont's flow language about a merged seniority list at mainline. If anything it would increase Envoy's flow since US Air's pilots are that much older than AA's on average. Envoy still gets 50% of each class and Piedmont still gets their share (can't remember the number off the top of my head) and PSA still gets their 4 interviews per month.
Nice try.
Hmmm. You two little boys are stupid.
I'll sum up my meaning with 3 words and there's no conspiracy or theory. Just past history and fact.
City pair duplication.
You two kids need to put down the hair gel and video games and take a look back at some previous mergers, check out how that went down. What I mean is this. Both American airlines and u s air fly flights from some of the same cities to some of the same cities. Which they will no longer continue to do after the seniority list gets fully merged and implimented. Don't think so? I'll refer you to the delta/nwa merger. Now suddenly after cutting out the duplication they have extra pilots. If AAG is fat a few hundred or a thousand pilots what will that do to the flow numbers?
--------0-------- flow.
But you guys already figured that out right?
Last edited by Bootleg; 08-09-2015 at 07:48 PM.
08-09-2015 | 08:09 PM
#94
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,867
Likes: 116
Hmmm. You two little boys are stupid.
I'll sum up my meaning with 3 words and there's no conspiracy or theory. Just past history and fact.
City pair duplication.
You two kids need to put down the hair gel and video games and take a look back at some previous mergers, check out how that went down. What I mean is this. Both American airlines and u s air fly flights from some of the same cities to some of the same cities. Which they will no longer continue to do after the seniority list gets fully merged and implimented. Don't think so? I'll refer you to the delta/nwa merger. Now suddenly after cutting out the duplication they have extra pilots. If AAG is fat a few hundred or a thousand pilots what will that do to the flow numbers?
--------0-------- flow.
But you guys already figured that out right?
I'll sum up my meaning with 3 words and there's no conspiracy or theory. Just past history and fact.
City pair duplication.
You two kids need to put down the hair gel and video games and take a look back at some previous mergers, check out how that went down. What I mean is this. Both American airlines and u s air fly flights from some of the same cities to some of the same cities. Which they will no longer continue to do after the seniority list gets fully merged and implimented. Don't think so? I'll refer you to the delta/nwa merger. Now suddenly after cutting out the duplication they have extra pilots. If AAG is fat a few hundred or a thousand pilots what will that do to the flow numbers?
--------0-------- flow.
But you guys already figured that out right?
Relax man. Everything will be alright...
Have you seen how many pilots will retire between both airlines next year? Take a guess...more than 400. At the end there won't be extra pilots.
Have you take that into consideration? How about 2017 retirements?
08-09-2015 | 08:31 PM
#95
With the Rebel Forces.
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
From: Observing
[QUOTE=PilotJ3;1946497]Well...if you remembered one of the things that drove the merger was that between AA and USAir are not many overlapping routes.
Relax man. Everything will be alright...
Have you seen how many pilots will retire between both airlines next year? Take a guess...more than 400. At the end there won't be extra pilots.
Have you take that into consideration? How about 2017 retirements?[/QUOTE
Yea. No doubt that will help things. But I know how that company lies. I had the displeasure of being there for 8 years. Who the hell knows what will happen. All I do know is that if I were there now as a newer guy I'd be doing everything I could to try to get on with Delta or United. Waiting for something that eagleconvoy promised would give me hives.
Relax man. Everything will be alright...
Have you seen how many pilots will retire between both airlines next year? Take a guess...more than 400. At the end there won't be extra pilots.
Have you take that into consideration? How about 2017 retirements?[/QUOTE
Yea. No doubt that will help things. But I know how that company lies. I had the displeasure of being there for 8 years. Who the hell knows what will happen. All I do know is that if I were there now as a newer guy I'd be doing everything I could to try to get on with Delta or United. Waiting for something that eagleconvoy promised would give me hives.
08-10-2015 | 07:18 AM
#96
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,578
Likes: 48
From: Semi-Retired...
They have to abide by the minimums but are free to send more than required, which is clearly spelled out in the language.
08-10-2015 | 07:26 AM
#97
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,578
Likes: 48
From: Semi-Retired...
I have read it. What have I said that isn't true?
The issue I brought up is you once again "carrying the company's water" by touting ad naseaum that LOOK, ENVOY HAS FLOWED 70% OF AA NEW HIRES THIS YEAR. Other than pointing out you wearing the recruiting/management mouthpiece hat, my point was not to expect 70% to continue beyond AAG directly benefiting from it. Expect a decline, hopefully to not any lower than the agreement, but this company does have a history of not giving a crap about agreements and letting arbitrators figure it out YEARS later. We are currently in the lucky position, in this instance, of our desires being aligned.
The issue I brought up is you once again "carrying the company's water" by touting ad naseaum that LOOK, ENVOY HAS FLOWED 70% OF AA NEW HIRES THIS YEAR. Other than pointing out you wearing the recruiting/management mouthpiece hat, my point was not to expect 70% to continue beyond AAG directly benefiting from it. Expect a decline, hopefully to not any lower than the agreement, but this company does have a history of not giving a crap about agreements and letting arbitrators figure it out YEARS later. We are currently in the lucky position, in this instance, of our desires being aligned.
I have no doubt the % will fluctuate; and that's fine as long as we get 50% or better.
08-10-2015 | 07:29 AM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 439
Likes: 0
That's how I understand it as well. Some on here seem to think that if they send more one then required one month, then they don't have to send at least the minimum the next, as long as in the end it all adds up to 50%. This is not correct in how I read the language.
08-10-2015 | 07:30 AM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,578
Likes: 48
From: Semi-Retired...
Hmmm. You two little boys are stupid.
I'll sum up my meaning with 3 words and there's no conspiracy or theory. Just past history and fact.
City pair duplication.
You two kids need to put down the hair gel and video games and take a look back at some previous mergers, check out how that went down. What I mean is this. Both American airlines and u s air fly flights from some of the same cities to some of the same cities. Which they will no longer continue to do after the seniority list gets fully merged and implimented. Don't think so? I'll refer you to the delta/nwa merger. Now suddenly after cutting out the duplication they have extra pilots. If AAG is fat a few hundred or a thousand pilots what will that do to the flow numbers?
--------0-------- flow.
But you guys already figured that out right?
I'll sum up my meaning with 3 words and there's no conspiracy or theory. Just past history and fact.
City pair duplication.
You two kids need to put down the hair gel and video games and take a look back at some previous mergers, check out how that went down. What I mean is this. Both American airlines and u s air fly flights from some of the same cities to some of the same cities. Which they will no longer continue to do after the seniority list gets fully merged and implimented. Don't think so? I'll refer you to the delta/nwa merger. Now suddenly after cutting out the duplication they have extra pilots. If AAG is fat a few hundred or a thousand pilots what will that do to the flow numbers?
--------0-------- flow.
But you guys already figured that out right?
Your fear bomb has very little teeth. This was your big secret conspiracy theory? This is what you accused the union of hiding?? Something that was specifically mentioned already by the DOJ ??
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