You don't have to work there or be a math major to figure out the flow isn't going to be able to continue in the numbers advertised with 10-12 new hires a month.

 

^ Case and point. The flow is working better than advertised, kid. New hires? Shake your magic 8 ball up a couple more times and tell us how many new hires we will have next month. And the month after that. And so on...

And you don't have to have an IQ over 70 to know that accepting a job at allegiant is the dumbest move on earth. So congratulations, kid!

 

Meanwhile the last vacancy BID first upgrades starts in April 7! The last guy goes into training in first week of Oct.

Only 6 months for a 87 upgrade Vacancy Bid. Seems than they are about to send another vacancy soon. It never takes them less than 7 days after running the bid to get the flow plan out.

 

It's a great time to be an Envoy pilot!

 

TIT!

Good Luck!

 

So you think it's best for pilots NOT to discuss the good, bad and ugly regarding the realities of various airlines, but only the good ? You think it would be best for present pilots to just to walk into the industry with no information or whitewashed information ? You think it's best for pilots NOT to come on here and ask for improvements to competitively deficient contractual items or dare I even say it............expect their managements to LIVE UP TO THE CONTRACTUAL PROVISIONS THEY AGREED TO IN THE FIRST PLACE ? Perhaps places that are perceived to be a "hot mess" are that way for a reason ?


I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but to a degree it has always been that way, but I agree that now I think it's simply on steroids. The regionals as an industry have ALWAYS treated their pilots poorly (and it's not a compensation issue per se, but a philosophical one), but now that the inevitable has occurred when an industry does that and in this case, the commodity of the "pilot" has been alienated, the situation is now more dire as many carriers themselves see that they may cease to exist in the fairly near future and yet even with this knowledge (subconscious or not), they STILL cling to the philosophy that got themselves in this hot mess in the first place. One of those philosophies IMO, is what is occurring on this forum that seems to be only about Envoy.

You can't fix stupid.

This last paragraph indicates to me that you should concentrate on an airline management future as it seems that psychologically, that's where you are now if you consider the "bad's and ugly's" aren't what prospective pilots should hear and only the "good's" are "useful information". From my perspective, these forums have more then enough useful information on contractual aspects, logistics and anything else you need or want to know about an airline and the rest is simply opinions to consider or not. But you're right though, some here ARE cheerleading (and selling) using questionable info and illogical claims JUST so they can "get theirs". THAT is one of the very foundations of the problem too, that being that a significant percentage of the present cadre of regional pilots have a steroidal parasitic philosophy and are all to willing to throw another under the bus to grease their own path forward. IMO, THAT is the reason the topic of Envoy practically stands alone on this forum as no other regional here has elected to use the tactics of management plants, false identity members, embracement of inflated claims and aggressive sales tactics by a handful of select pilots as Envoy. I think in that respect, Envoy has become its own worst enemy as the more the present situation there is represented that is at odds with the reality that their pilots report, its pilots and others will dispute that.

As usual, it's just my opinion, but I think the best thing for Envoy on this forum is to simply be like the other regionals (why must it be so different ?) and go with the philosophy that if there isn't much good to say, to not say anything at all and it will mute a lot of this so-called negativity that you claim is the crux of Envoy's problems. If half as much effort was put into repairing their relationship with their pilots as is pumping B.S. into this forum, I think they'd have twice as many new-hires in class. Of course, being a systemic issue not just about Envoy, but about the regional industry, the days of having enough pilots are over. As the legacy retirements ramp up over the next few years, this sub-segment of the industry is destined for a complete change to be virtually unrecognizable from the present.

 

Not surprised by this post at all. IMO, YOU (and your chums) ARE the problem here regarding Envoy and whether you accept it or not, have done more harm to Envoy then any pilot not working there or even working there and posting at odds with your agenda. If pilots want to hear what other Envoy pilots are saying good, bad and ugly, just go to EL and get it straight from the horse's mouth. From my perspective though, if they think it's bad here, going there and hearing Envoy pilots themselves isn't going to improve their perception.

Had you and a few others not come here on a sales jihad and pumped all that B.S. onto the forum, there would have been nothing to dispute and Envoy would 'look" no different then others here. If you truly want to help your airline, why don't you check your ego's and simply let Envoy be Envoy whatever Envoy wants itself to be. Only Envoy can make Envoy what it not only is, but how it's perceived, not anyone on this forum and your clan does more harm then good IMO. I mean honestly, has your 6-9 month sales jihad really helped all that much or hurt ?

 

So, if the "mood and quality" of these forums were improved, but the realities of working for these carriers does not, does this REALLY help the future hapless new-hire pilot or does it serve the interests of those other then new-hire pilots ?

I'd argue the latter. All that occurs is another generation of clueless pilots wanders into the path of a well known rogue mack truck because well-known "dirty laundry" was swept under the rug. That's NOT going to solve the regional industry problem just like censorship isn't solving any issues in China. This industry is in the situation it is in exactly BECAUSE of such a dysfunctional philosophy and new efforts at making it more covert won't solve anything.

 

Blow it out your rear, you self righteous moron. Stop making this some great catastrophe. You and your lap poodle ag3xxx love blowing things out of proportion.

If you didn't post every 2 minutes speculation and false information about a company you don't work for, maybe some of us wouldn't have to always counter you. If I decided to jump into a random airline thread like say Skywest and just start speculating about how bad things are going to be for them...I would fully expect their pilots to strike right back at me.

So you don't like that we post back at you when you always talk crap about our airline? Well once again, I invite you to blow it out your rear.

But in the end, there is one thing I can say about this and every other forum. Nothing matters over the long run. In the short run sure, maybe a few new hires will be scared away by false crap posted by people like you.

But pilots have very short memories. Look at Endeavor. A very short time ago they were considered the worst airline on the planet and everyone hated them. Now they are filling classes. Funny, isn't it? That's how things work. Tomorrow things turn around at Envoy and nobody will remember what any of us had to say, good or bad.

Hate to break it to you, but your million posts on APC don't matter. They won't be archived for future generations or put into the National Library. Your entire existence is a waste of time and AA pilots are sorry the Envoy flow was ever extended to you. Yes, they have said that...want me to link to their posts talking about you again? I would be happy to.

 

.....and despite what a few claim, these forums are NOT the reason pilots aren't going to Envoy. The REAL network is pilot-to-pilot. The reputations of carriers and the QWL of those that work there filter to others outside various airline forums. Political forums don't guide the pulse of the country politically either. But, in Envoy's case every little bit helps and there are some here who have hurt it more by making claims that it would be inevitable they would be disputed and the harder they try to sell these claims, the more it spotlights their dilemma. At least Isom's latest video accurately states that 50% of AA flows will come from the combined wholly-owneds even though it's an Envoy video and no specifics are promised.