DL31082

Nobody's been muzzled.

Bozo

Yes sir you are correct!!!!!!

Bartender

PBS WHERE WE ARE NOW
Over the next few weeks we will be discussing the specific benefits of a Preferential Bidding System (PBS) that respects seniority throughout the entire bid process. Specifically, we will focus on the elements of FlightLine’s PrefBid system “Flica”, a PBS system that was customized by pilots – for the benefit of pilots.

The contrasts between FlightLine’s PrefBid and a globalized PBS system, such as Crewing Solution’s SmartPref, are obvious. Globalized systems are designed to benefit the company regardless of the cost to pilot Quality of Life (QOL). This is not acceptable to pilots wanting to develop a schedule that preserves as much quality of life as possible.

We understand the difference in perspective from other groups. Certainly, when we were using line bidding, we thought PBS was the scheduling manifestation of the Devil. It was this concern that we, the ASA Master Executive Council, agreed to investigate but not necessarily implement, PBS after Contract 2007. This decision was vital in securing the work-rules that have made our version of FlightLine’s PrefBid pilot friendly.

“It’s not about the system, it’s just about the work-rules!”

The work-rules do play a significant role, but the system award logic is just as important. What good are the work-rules if the system has the right to ignore your bid, every month? What is the point of bidding if you cannot expect some sense of consistency in how the system will operate?

We negotiated the FlightLine LOA after our 2007 CBA was ratified. Negotiating outside of National Mediation Board (NMB) Section 6 negotiations allowed us to insist on protecting pilots QOL. We did not have to conform to the bankruptcy-forced industry standard that could have caused significant damage to pilot QOL. The company wanted PBS, and we worked with them to achieve QOL protections for our pilots. There is no clearer evidence of the results than the overwhelming support for our version of FlightLine’s PrefBid than the large majority of our pilots that are pleased with the results after three years of bidding experience.

Why would anyone want to consider using a globalized system?

Obviously, the company would enjoy the benefits. Why would pilots want to use a globalized system? The average line pilot has no ability to construct his specific line and is forced to bid on pre-constructed lines. Pilots try to correct for losses in QOL by fishing for trips during the First-Come-First-Serve Line-improvement windows. Crewing Solution’s SmartPref has a few features that are attractive. The interface is newer and an ongoing prelim is certainly a neat idea. Unfortunately, the cost to QOL for those features is substantial when the overall system philosophy is evaluated.

Unfortunately, some pilots are unaware they will lose a significant amount of this ability when there are no seniority-inverting conflicts. “Senior” trips will no longer drop to lower lines to use for line-improvement. The very limited amount of open time that will remain will be a shock to those used to thousands of hours to pick from. The scraps left over will be much less desirable and less valuable and there will be much less available.

It is critical, in PBS bidding, to be able to get what you want the first time. There is next to nothing left in open time, and what is available, most pilots will not want.

We do not advocate for negotiating separate preferential bidding systems. We do advocate for negotiating together, for terms of a pilot-friendly, pilot designed, PBS system, rather than testing a product that is not ready for use on a large scale and lacks sufficient support staff. We could use our combined leverage to negotiate improvements to our current system that is proven to work, and is currently up and running.

We are providing this information to allow pilots to make an informed decision and communicate their needs to their ALPA representation.

If you have any questions please contact the ASA MEC scheduling committee by phone at 888-624-5195 or e-mail at [email protected].

BACK TO TOP

PeezDog

I'd like to point out that the paper titled, "A Plan is a Good Start" under the ALPA shenanigans thread, sounds an awfully a like our current contract negotiations. Its uncanny in some circumstances. Specifically the one side (CAL) stalling and/or blocking the negotiation process to for the benefit of its own pilots. While at the same time, hurting the whole pilot group and diminishing their leverage we would have otherwise as a unified group. To summarize for those who didn't read the paper, CAL ALPA stalled because they were afraid of an SLI while at the same time benefiting from a whipsaw against the UAL pilots. CAL was getting more airplanes, more routes and hundreds of upgrades at the expense of UAL pilots. Adding fuel to the fire, was ALPA national being in bed with management and the NBM. Why in our TA, did you not take a single concession and push that sham of a TA like it is the second coming of Jesus? While the rest of us go nothing or less, especially the ERJ side.

To me (CRJ pilot), from the rhetoric that's been that's been spewed on here by supposed ASA union reps, and the hate that now spread into our cockpits, it sounds like you guys have gotten into to bed, very comfortably with management. That you, at the expense of the ERJ guys, are snuggling up with them to secure gains for yourselves. Either financially, or for your careers by securing management positions, or both. Which I guess would go hand in hand. By saying that there are "big announcements coming soon", and we are making plans that do not include the ERJ side, you are confirming that.

When I used the fatigue policy after 14 hours on duty, I got call from our union fatigue rep. This has never happened to me before or after this event. He, with out actually using the words, accused me of using the fatigue policy to get out of doing work, and that I was "frustrated" by the events of the day. Also, that he and the company rep both agreed with that assessment. Needless to say, I was furious. I followed up that with a call to the company fatigue rep who works with the union on fatigue calls. Now what the discussion that followed was almost verbatim to what my union rep and I discussed. So if you (ASA ALPA) are not in bed with the company, then why would you sound exactly like them and not stick up for your pilot and side with the company?

Now, we have the current events. After over 3 years, we get a TA. All be it a worthless one, but we got one. Now 10 months or so after, we have no progress. Now we have a propaganda campaign aimed at belittling and aliening the ERJ side, and promoting the sentiment over on the ASA side of leaving them to rot. While at the same time clamming that the CRJ side is going to benefit from some mystery announcement and that "our future is so bight I need sunglasses", as put by one of you on here. Do you know how that sounds? The message you are sending about you morality as person and a fellow pilot. What about our other reps? As someone who is expected to display professionalism at all times? What are you doing behind closed doors we do not know about?

In my opinion, as observed by me because of your (ALPA) actions, past actions, and history as shared with us through other that have been there, you are in bed with our management. You are looking out for yourselves and yourselves alone. I caution everyone to question and be very suspicious of the people in our, the ASA MEC. As put by the founders of our country, we are strongest as a Union. Why are you trying to divide us? That's a tactic taken by management, not labor unions. Again giving evidence to my point that you're in bed with management. They are already winning and you are too stupid to see it. And by them I mean our company and mainline. They would "choose" us because they know you are weak. They know you are greedy. They know they can get away with a ****ty contract and no improvements if they eliminate the "expensive" and "militant" side. And you are buying in.

Why would I care if I benefit from us selling out the ERJ side and getting more planes and upgrades? Because this is the exact behavior that had degraded this profession. This is the exact behavior we need to stop. It needs to stop because our future as airline pilots depends on it. Our lively hood depend on it. If we keep selling out and undercutting fellow pilots. then this free fall will never stop. Not to mention, that these questionable people who are in our Local, will someday end up in ALPA national. Who is also in bed with airline management. They will be working on things that can effect all airline pilots' our lives for years to come.

Captain Tony, JoeMerchant, Bozo and friends, I am calling you out. One of you please PM me, and explain to me why your are spreading this garbage as a rep of my union that I pay a lot of money to represent me. Not only at the local level, but a national level as well. Hell, if you want, I will PM you my number and you can call me. Prove me wrong. I understand the PBS argument, but I fail to buy into this stall tactic. How can this be the ONLY hold up to our TA? How come there has not been a resolution to this issue put forth after all this time? Just an occasional short email advocating for our PBS system. You have had 4 years!

IrishNJ

I think that what the Erj pilots did by looking at the options, we don't want to give up our current system but if we really really have to then it seems Smartpref would be far superior for us. Now we get to test it out.

For example, getting locked out of trip trading for days at a time ... that's just never going to be acceptable to us. Someone calls in sick and I can't trade my current trip?

Hou757

How about pilots have the chance to bid in parallel with both systems using same work rules?

PeezDog

Exactly. What's so hard about that? Why after 4 years are we still on this?

atrdriver

My understanding is that SmartPref isn't compatible with our work rules and protections, and, as such, cannot provide a true parallel bid. Assuming it was able to honor our work rules, a parallel bid would be incredibly expensive.

Why waste so much time and money to be able to say, "I told you so?"

PeezDog

We don't run the current work rules. We run it with what we agree to in a ratified TA and with the same rules. No different set of rules, the same for everyone, just a different pbs system. So yes, it wouldn't be compatible with your current work rules, because they won't be the same work rules you have now

Nevets

Look, everyone is taking this personal when it's not. Both MEC's are just doing what they feel is best for their pilots. I'm sorry, but that's how it works in a merger until we have one MEC. This has been true of the UAL/cal and every other merger in history.

The ASA MEC explains the benefit of bargaining for PBS outside of contract negotiations in order to get the QOL work rules needed to make it viable for the pilot group at that time. Well, that's exactly what the xjt MEC is doing for the exact same reasons! So why take it personal?

The reason why the xjt MEC is considering smartpref is because that's the PBS that they feel that can actually get passed a ratification vote on the erj side. They feel, and have said it many times, that they could not achieve the QOL work rules needed to make flight line viable enough to pass a ratification vote for the erj pilot group at this time. They believe that it's the only viable way forward with a JCBA. If they don't get work rules that are good enough, then I'm sure they will just go with flight line and put some other TA out for vote with that PBS and see what happens.

The fact is that the failed TA has a previously agreed upon process to deal with this PBS issue. Just as both MECs can approve the previously language in the failed to for ALPA PAC, dues check off, prisoner of war, etc, they can easily do this for the PBS process agreement. The only reason why we are discussing this again is because the ASA MEC has decided to change their mind on something they already previously agreed on. The erj MEC tried to address the ASA MEC issue by agreeing to make it a weighted vote in order to make it "fair" yet their MEC reneged on that. Now the erj MEC has convinced the company to have two PBSs in perpetuity but that seems to not be good enough for the ASA MEC either, judging by that last email. So why are we still talking about PBS? It's not for the lack of effort on the erj MECs part, that's for sure.

So just let the process work itself out. We, in the erj side especially, voted no on the last TA and will suffer the consequences of that vote. We all knew that but were principled enough to not give into concessions, something we need more of in this industry. The erj MEC will either not be able to negotiate work rules to their satisfaction and decide to just go with flight line, or the ASA MEC will agree to have two separate PBSs, or the erj MEC will be able to negotiate work rules in order to at least send it out for parallel bidding and a ratification vote. If that happens, the issue will go to arbitration. If the Asa MEC wins the arbitration, then we go with flight line. If they lose the arbitration, then we would wait and see if they continue to try to fight it through some other grievance.

So the process is there for this to resolve itself in a number of different ways. Let's let the MEC do what they feel is best for their pilots (with their pilots input of course) and see what happens. So let's not take it personal.