Vaccine Stance
09-16-2021, 04:07 PM
#311
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 282
Originally Posted by hoya saxa
You nailed it. Feel free to trespass on my property, maybe help yourself to something in my bar, take my car etc etc. Because your rights to do whatever TF you want are all-important, no matter their impact on others. To think otherwise is fascist! 
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09-16-2021, 06:26 PM
#314
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,236
Originally Posted by DR K
Maybe not. Any company that subscribes to the moral mandate for the vaccine would have required it the day after FDA approval.
Since the vast majority of companies in the US (notably in the airline industry) still do not require the vaccine (even after the executive order places additional threats to do so), they obviously do not share the moral argument of the mandate. Some companies will fight back and the legal challenges could last well beyond the forecasted month. Our country and industry are definitely at a crossroad and we will see which direction it turns.
Back to the real question which is based on your sincerely-held moral beliefs concerning the necessity of the vaccine to protect innocent life. If your employer received an exemption and did not require vaccination as terms for employment, could you ever see yourself working in such a dangerous and immoral environment? Thanks for your thoughtful consideration of this question. DR K
Since the vast majority of companies in the US (notably in the airline industry) still do not require the vaccine (even after the executive order places additional threats to do so), they obviously do not share the moral argument of the mandate. Some companies will fight back and the legal challenges could last well beyond the forecasted month. Our country and industry are definitely at a crossroad and we will see which direction it turns.
Back to the real question which is based on your sincerely-held moral beliefs concerning the necessity of the vaccine to protect innocent life. If your employer received an exemption and did not require vaccination as terms for employment, could you ever see yourself working in such a dangerous and immoral environment? Thanks for your thoughtful consideration of this question. DR K
1. For those who fly to China... So when you go to China you have no Rights what so ever... The first one of our pilots who pops hot there and is "Held Accountable" for being unvaccinated could change things in itself. China will 'hold accountable' unvaccinated for COVID-19 outbreaks (nypost.com)
2. You could start having to pay for the cost of your risk via insurance costs.
3. The company could get tired of the Covid sick calls.
4. The company (or another company) could get sued for an unsafe work environment.
5. The government mandated it for FedEx last week. That could hold up in court.
6. Most countries we transit could require it.
7. The government could require proof of vaccination for interstate travelers.
8. Airlines could require proof of vaccination for all customers.
9. Wild Cards.
Personally I think the company is waiting for #5 or #6 to play out so that they aren't the bad guy. Any way you slice it you'll eventually be required... I'll be here to remind you that I told you so when they do.
09-16-2021, 06:36 PM
#315
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD11 Captain
Posts: 364
Originally Posted by BertMacklinFBI
what do you have for bourbon?
Hahaha, about everything but Pappy. Gotta get past the claymores and 12 gauge wielding wife first tho.
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09-17-2021, 06:40 AM
#318
Contract 2021
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 777 - Both
Posts: 438
Originally Posted by Shaman
No one should be stupid enough to take personal health nor financial advice from pilots despite the fact that they happily and confidently share it.
Why argue with these dudes? They believe they can see and understand things no one else can.
Why argue with these dudes? They believe they can see and understand things no one else can.
I’m happy to get advice on flying from any of them however! 😉
09-20-2021, 12:23 PM
#319
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,099
Vaccine Stance
Originally Posted by 121guy
OSHA does not have jurisdiction over flight crews.
I’m wondering if the mandate applies to unionized work groups? Somehow the postal workers are exempt. I see that the NBPA has rejected a vaccine mandate in their negotiations with the NBA.
Originally Posted by DR K
Maybe not. Any company that subscribes to the moral mandate for the vaccine would have required it the day after FDA approval.
Your moral argument can be made for any company not requiring it even before the government made it mandatory.
Originally Posted by Temocil27
Food for thought- doctors are often wrong. That’s why they pay a lot annually for malpractice insurance. A doctor telling you misinformation is fairly common. I bet a lot of doctors still believe low fat diets are good for you. Also, FDA approval means jack. How many prescription drugs are FDA approved, but are also responsible for killing people?
This is from the internet so it’s probably not true.
Roughly 12,000,000 Americans are misdiagnosed each year.
Medical errors cause an estimated 250,000 deaths in the United States annually.
A little more than 4,000 surgical errors occur each year.
It’s estimated that 7,000 to 9,000 patients die every year from medication errors.
https://mymedicalscore.com/medical-error-statistics/
Originally Posted by Shaman
"Liberty" and "freedom" don't entitle you to do whatever you want whenever you want. That is indeed the mind of the selfish. Most children learn this at an early age, but it is pretty clear that some folks have still failed to grasp this. So they rant and rave like angry toddlers threatening violence and touting phantom conspiracies oppressing their "rights". Nothing will change their MINDS because this is about how they FEEL and what they WANT.
Forcing someone to get injected in order to protect those who are already protected by the vaccine amounts to authoritarianism.
Last edited by FXLAX; 09-20-2021 at 12:38 PM.
09-20-2021, 08:14 PM
#320
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Fetal in the hub
Posts: 406
Originally Posted by FXLAX
Forcing someone to do something against their will is not freedom or liberty. No one is saying that unvaxed people want to do whatever they want. That’s a strawman argument. What they are saying is that they don’t want to get vaccinated. People’s risk of death from COVID is measured in the fractions of one percent for those under 75 and those without specific comorbidities. And the percentages for those vaccinated is even lower. So saying that someone who is unvaxed infringes on the rights of the vaxxed just doesn’t add up.
Forcing someone to get injected in order to protect those who are already protected by the vaccine amounts to authoritarianism.
The folks who dedicate their time and efforts to finding methods to mitigate the effects of this disease shouldn't have to contend with "guy who has "researched" @#$% on the internet" as SMEs. But here we are, thanks internet.
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