Originally Posted by doz4dllrs

"According to the SEC documents filed by Frontier, the carrier’s financials since its transition to a ULCC business model have been very strong. From 2014-2016 revenue grew only about 8%, but the balance of the revenue coming from ancillary revenues jumped from 16.6% to 42.3% in 2016, indicating a successful transition to the ULCC business model.

Moreover, profitability jumped from a 14.3% operating margin in 2014 to 18.5% in 2016. Perhaps more impressively, Frontier expanded its operating margins between 2015 and 2016 even as most of its US airline peers saw margins and profits go in the opposite direction.

What you’re left with is a carrier that generated a $317 million operating profit and a $200 million net profit off of $1.71 billion in revenue in 2016.

Whatever the flaws with the IPO (and I will get into that below), Frontier’s margins are comparable to those of its larger ULCC competitors Allegiant and Spirit, and are much stronger than those of Virgin America at the time of its IPO back in 2014. Moreover, the ULCC business model has a proven track record of success around the world with a consistent path of expanding profits for ULCCs around the world in the last two decades."

317 Million operating profit or 200 million net?
So what was F9's profit divided by 1100 pilots?

$288,181 or $181,818?

It's no Delta, but its not bad.

Originally Posted by Planepirate

No it’s not bad. But it’s not Delta. To compare apples to apples: Delta 2016 net profit was $4.37 billion. Divided by 14450 pilots and you get $302,000.

$302,422 vs $181,818.

My original point was you can’t just look at profit margin when comparing.

But again, I’ll reiterate that Frontier CAN afford to pay industry standard. Quick math using your example: each pilot could get a $100k per year raise and the company net profit would still be $81,000 per pilot (or $89 million for the year). However good luck convincing the mediator or that.

Originally Posted by Mugatu

Our mediator is already convinced. That’s why we presented before the NMB. And the only thing we have to convince the NMB is the Company negotiating in bad faith, which we have a strong argument, especially when we already have a LOA 67 arbitrator confirming such actions.

Why are you on Frontier board??

Originally Posted by Planepirate

The mediator is already convinced of what? That you should be paid Delta wages because your margins are higher than Delta’s? That’s what I’m talking about.

Listen, I have a lot of friends at F9. Im not trying to manage expectations, but rather educate. We have the same type here at Spirit that think “it’s all about the margins”. Well I’m here to tell you that it’s not. What you guys DO have going for you (that Spirit pilots didn’t have) is that indigo IS bargaining in bad faith. Which means you may actually get released. Not having a TRO like we did will certainly help you too. It’ll be interesting to see what Indigos response will be to a passed Spirit TA. Then if they hold to their egos and offer another 1%, it’ll be interesting to see how the NMB reacts.

I hope that Frontier pilots are able to get better than we at Spirit are about ready to vote on. I hope this for my many friends over there as well as it being a good starting point after the merger

Originally Posted by dracir1

AGREED! I would think all of NK would be our greatest cheerleaders. If we get a better AIP/TA and we merge, who's contract do you think we'll all want to have?

For the life of me, I just can't understand the NK presence here as of late and the less than congenial outlook everyone seems to have...

Originally Posted by Planepirate

I think a lot of the “NK” posters are trolls. I’ve always read the F9 forums but never felt I had a reason to post until now.

Originally Posted by Planepirate

The mediator is already convinced of what? That you should be paid Delta wages because your margins are higher than Delta’s? That’s what I’m talking about.

Originally Posted by Mugatu

Why do you feel compelled to educate us?

Originally Posted by Mugatu

It’s clear you understand how mediation works and it’s clear by this post you’re spinning it. We don’t convince the mediator anything, we negotiate with the company.

The type and timing of your posts is highly suspicious.

Originally Posted by Planepirate

Dude you can think what you want to think. My ONLY point I’m trying to make, in all of my posts, is that the ability of a company to pay its pilots is not tied solely to profit margin. That is all.