Missed Appch

I wonder what the arbitrator will do. Make them "negotiate in good faith". The company will just continue to drag it out. Or could the arbitrator force them to give us what the union asked for? Somewhere in between? Thoughts.........

DrJekyll MrHyde

The same person who spearheads every controversy on the private Facebook group she created and moderates. The same person who went on a witch hunt to kick out anyone with management ties from that Facebook group so she could feel safe from company action after b!tching about the company. And then the same person who went straight to the company about a name calling on that private Facebook page - with the full intention of getting her co-workers fired after she bypassed Pro-standards and the chief pilot's office. She's probably reading this site. Did I miss anything?

Trowserchilli

Yes and no.

I understand people see it as the last resort, that's because that's what it is.
The process in reality undermines Union strength in an organization. Instead it sends a message that we need help, rather than management seeing, recognizing, then responsibly responding to an angry and unified labor group. I.e. resolving the issue at the workplace.
We're basically putting the decision on whatever it is, in the hands of a third party.
Even the Alpa letter indicates were not really sure what the company is earning. I think the place is profitable.
Problem is we only see what they want to share being a privately held company.
That could present a problem for us with the arbitrator, management paints a not so rosy financial picture to the arbitrator then it's over.
That in turn would weaken our spot with our contract negotiations.

Unfortunately arbitration is the next step in the process, it also shows they don't give two ****s about our union no matter what label it has.

I'm going to hang onto my bravado for the strike. That's the only thing I think this management team will in the end respond to.

How do you join that FB page?

DrJekyll MrHyde

But to your original post - We're never striking based upon a decision from an arbitrator in LOA67, this is completely SEPARATE from section 6 negotiations. The LOA67 and section 6 processes are happening in parallel but are only loosely connected. If we score more pay from an arbitration on LOA67, then that would effect our bargaining power in section 6 negotiations (because we would be at a higher pay rate).

There is no harm in pursuing expedited arbitration for the grievance over LOA67, in fact it could be our only ace in the hole to spurn productive section 6 negotiations (i.e. the arbitrator already gave us most of the pay, now we only have to iron out the other sections of the contract). Frankly, our pilots should be excited for the potential outcome an arbitration over LOA67 can bring. The pay sure as heck can't get worse!

You can't join FAP Facebook page unless you've been invited and approved by it's moderator, the woman in the high castle. It's a "super duper secret" group, and you can't find it in a search. But in the company's eyes, it's not secret, it's super duper public. I'd think twice about joining if you were invited.

Missed Appch

This...

Many people have left it recently due to fear of getting ratted on to the company by a certain member.

DrJekyll MrHyde

In arbitration both sides, company and pilots, present their arguments and then the arbitrator makes a decision - it usually is somewhere in the middle, and it will certainly be better than nothing! Also, since Trowser mentioned it, regardless of the fact that Frontier is a privately owned company, the companies financials will be disclosed to the arbitrator. A non-disclosure agreement is standard for arbitration. That said, the company will likely try to taint or bias the info it discloses to an arbitrator to favor its argument.

Our grievance is specifically over pilot pay increases per language in LOA67, the scope of the arbitrator's decision should be Company Performance/Financials = Appropriate Pilot Pay. No other decisions should be rendered, an arbitrator can't tell us to go back to the table to negotiate pay increases under LOA67. He/she renders a decision, and we're legally bound to it.

Hou757

When should this arbitration occur?

DrJekyll MrHyde

It's hard to speculate on a ballpark timeline, ALPA will need to provide that info. Here's a link to Arbitrator Association's roadmap. Pay particular attention to page 3, a typical timeline, and also page 12 (appendix) that contains some stats (in days) for each part of the process. Complex and larger cases have an extended timeline. And in our case a decision would likely contain an award north of 10 million dollars.

https://www.adr.org/aaa/ShowPDF?doc=ADRSTG_003838

kb8018

Wouldn't the Form 41 DoT data that's been provided to us be a truthful snapshot of exactly how much money Frontier is making, to the tune of 15+% profit margin for 2014 and 2015? I'm not sure how they could doctor or hide behind what they are obligated to report to the Feds.

DrJekyll MrHyde

Even doctored financials would probably be far more favorable than DOT - and the DOT looks good!