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Old 01-17-2017, 02:07 PM
  #6661  
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Originally Posted by Windsor View Post
I'll take a freight dog sitting next to me any day of the week. Good for them.
I feel the same. But I'm a freight dawg too in a former life, so maybe I'm biased.
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Old 01-17-2017, 03:51 PM
  #6662  
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Originally Posted by Windsor View Post
I'll take a freight dog sitting next to me any day of the week. Good for them.
I wasn't attacking the merits of freight pilots at Ameriflight or any other cargo outfit, just like I have nothing against our former Silver and Great Lakes pilots.

They (the company) are having problems recruiting pilots, and I'm going to say it has something to do with the substandard pay and high cost (for most) to start training with this company; and that's just for starters. They are using flow-through agreements as a mechanism to plug the holes in the leaky ship. They're content with duping the next group to come onboard, with the promise of a 2-year upgrade that doesn't exist. Instead, they could be making this a fair and good place to work.
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Old 01-17-2017, 04:12 PM
  #6663  
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Speaking of upgrade time, the junior CA award on the recent vacancy went to ORD, for an April 2014 hire. That equals about a 3 year upgrade almost to the day for said pilot.

Jr DEN CA went to a 10/07 hire.
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Old 01-17-2017, 09:30 PM
  #6664  
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Originally Posted by DrJekyll MrHyde View Post
I wasn't attacking the merits of freight pilots at Ameriflight or any other cargo outfit, just like I have nothing against our former Silver and Great Lakes pilots.

They (the company) are having problems recruiting pilots, and I'm going to say it has something to do with the substandard pay and high cost (for most) to start training with this company; and that's just for starters. They are using flow-through agreements as a mechanism to plug the holes in the leaky ship. They're content with duping the next group to come onboard, with the promise of a 2-year upgrade that doesn't exist. Instead, they could be making this a fair and good place to work.
Undstood. As a former freight dog, I was merely stating a fact. I was not referring your post.

The question was posed to J.N last month concerning F9 future hiring needs and the fact they cannot use upgrade as a selling point after 2017. His response $$$. He knows. He has a clue. I hope he can clue in Indigo bean counters because they will have a bunch of shiny new planes and no F.O's to fly em.
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Old 01-17-2017, 10:30 PM
  #6665  
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Originally Posted by Windsor View Post
Undstood. As a former freight dog, I was merely stating a fact. I was not referring your post.

The question was posed to J.N last month concerning F9 future hiring needs and the fact they cannot use upgrade as a selling point after 2017. His response $$$. He knows. He has a clue. I hope he can clue in Indigo bean counters because they will have a bunch of shiny new planes and no F.O's to fly em.
Eh, I dunno.

If you were a COO, and it was your job to hire pilots and you started forecasting that you might be short in the near future, do you think your first solution to the problem would be to increase the wages for ALL pilots?

There will NEVER be an FO shortage as long as there are situations where pilots are worse off. And, right now, the regionals are still worse. I came from one as did many others here. If the COO wants, he can lower the standards for hiring (some say that's already happened) and keep it moving.

There won't be an FO shortage at Frontier, Spirit, Allegiant or any other ragamuff ULCC for a good while.

To be honest, I would be surprised if many of the leadership at F9 weren't already secretly wishing Indigo WOULD pay more - it would make their job so much easier and the airline run so much better.
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Old 01-18-2017, 05:00 AM
  #6666  
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Originally Posted by dracir1 View Post
Eh, I dunno.

If you were a COO, and it was your job to hire pilots and you started forecasting that you might be short in the near future, do you think your first solution to the problem would be to increase the wages for ALL pilots?

There will NEVER be an FO shortage as long as there are situations where pilots are worse off. And, right now, the regionals are still worse. I came from one as did many others here. If the COO wants, he can lower the standards for hiring (some say that's already happened) and keep it moving.

There won't be an FO shortage at Frontier, Spirit, Allegiant or any other ragamuff ULCC for a good while.

To be honest, I would be surprised if many of the leadership at F9 weren't already secretly wishing Indigo WOULD pay more - it would make their job so much easier and the airline run so much better.
Maybe the ULCC mgmt would prefer for there to be a significant deficit between their compensation and legacy compensation in general in order to have a certain amount of turnover in general. Maybe they don't want employees to reach the 12 yr rates in general so as a plan they just need to compensate their employees somewhere between regional pay and legacy pay, but not get too close as to cancel out the workforce from searching for more. I'm not even just referring to pilots, think FA's dispatchers, rampers (that aren't contract), etc. The ONLY employees that get market rates are upper mgmt.
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:24 AM
  #6667  
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Originally Posted by full of luv View Post
Maybe the ULCC mgmt would prefer for there to be a significant deficit between their compensation and legacy compensation in general in order to have a certain amount of turnover in general. Maybe they don't want employees to reach the 12 yr rates in general so as a plan they just need to compensate their employees somewhere between regional pay and legacy pay, but not get too close as to cancel out the workforce from searching for more. I'm not even just referring to pilots, think FA's dispatchers, rampers (that aren't contract), etc. The ONLY employees that get market rates are upper mgmt.
Ridiculous.

Spirit came off strike earning more than AA, UAL, B6, USAir and many more. That was under Indigo.
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:49 AM
  #6668  
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Originally Posted by ClearCreek View Post
How do we complain about hotels formally?
Since you guys are ALPA now you should have a Hotel Committee at your local council. I am not at F9 but our hotel committee is VERY busy and effective. Ranking in importance would probably be Negotiating Committee, Greivance and followed by a close 3rd by the hotel committee.

Talk to your rep and see what the structure is currently. If you aren't satisfied I would submit resolutions at the local level that will eventually be heard by the MEC if you have the votes.
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Old 01-18-2017, 09:21 AM
  #6669  
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Originally Posted by Shrek View Post
Since you guys are ALPA now you should have a Hotel Committee at your local council. I am not at F9 but our hotel committee is VERY busy and effective. Ranking in importance would probably be Negotiating Committee, Greivance and followed by a close 3rd by the hotel committee.

Talk to your rep and see what the structure is currently. If you aren't satisfied I would submit resolutions at the local level that will eventually be heard by the MEC if you have the votes.
Our MEC has put out good information on how to submit complaints about hotels at least a few times.
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Old 01-18-2017, 11:19 AM
  #6670  
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Re: the latest negotiation update......
Improved DH language is all well and good but get to the crux of it...
FULL PAY FOR DH!
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