System bid
06-14-2019 | 10:36 AM
#271
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,150
Likes: 0
From: Left,Right, Left, Right,Right,Left, Right, Left
DAL rates going into their current negotiations:
A321: 285.50
B739: 285.50
B738: 284.01
A320: 274.06
A319: 274.06
A223: 269.15
A221: 262.84
B717: 255.57
JB’s E190 rate is pathetic and should be at least JB’s A221 rate. JB’s A221 rate should be the current A223 rate. Dying fleet or new fleet not on property...these rates matter and this should have been a resounding no. The cost of training events will surpass the amount they’d have paid with decent rates.
A321: 285.50
B739: 285.50
B738: 284.01
A320: 274.06
A319: 274.06
A223: 269.15
A221: 262.84
B717: 255.57
JB’s E190 rate is pathetic and should be at least JB’s A221 rate. JB’s A221 rate should be the current A223 rate. Dying fleet or new fleet not on property...these rates matter and this should have been a resounding no. The cost of training events will surpass the amount they’d have paid with decent rates.
06-14-2019 | 10:57 AM
#272
Banned
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
Oh, the guys who entered their negotiations with 278.77 A319 pay? The plane with same capability as a A223? At the same company that has 20 E190s and are parking them? The same guys that have 300 of their 15000+ pilots (2% of their pilots) flying it? Same guys who can bid off of it after a year and go to a much higher paying plane and never actually see the lower rate (so take that 300 number and change it to 150, since there are very few FOs actually on a low pay scale after first year pay which is the same on all planes)? Same one with an upgrade that’s like a year or two on that plane, so they essentially can be a E90 CA or NB/WB FO and make as much? Point is, it’s such a small and insignificant plane there, the rate on that plane is not worth negotiating capital, just like the ghost rates at DAL/UAL. For every plane on property that actually affects their pilot group, they have significantly higher rates than JB. If 1/4 of their pilots were flying E190s, they would put a lot more negotiating capital on the table to increase it. But since it doesn’t really affect anyone there, why waste it? Ditto for the 2 other legacies who don’t have them.
06-14-2019 | 11:03 AM
#273
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,150
Likes: 0
From: Left,Right, Left, Right,Right,Left, Right, Left
You can justify it till your blue in the face. I’m not disagreeing with you that it should not be better. The reason it’s that low is that they were the nearest comparison with actual aircraft on property.
And to your point why didn’t they vote no? Because it only affected a small amount of their group? It should have been voted down.
And to your point why didn’t they vote no? Because it only affected a small amount of their group? It should have been voted down.
Oh, the guys who entered their negotiations with 278.77 A319 pay? The plane with same capability as a A223? At the same company that has 20 E190s and are parking them? The same guys that have 300 of their 15000+ pilots (2% of their pilots) flying it? Same guys who can bid off of it after a year and go to a much higher paying plane and never actually see the lower rate (so take that 300 number and change it to 150, since there are very few FOs actually on a low pay scale after first year pay which is the same on all planes)? Same one with an upgrade that’s like a year or two on that plane, so they essentially can be a E90 CA or NB/WB FO and make as much? Point is, it’s such a small and insignificant plane there, the rate on that plane is not worth negotiating capital, just like the ghost rates at DAL/UAL. For every plane on property that actually affects their pilot group, they have significantly higher rates than JB. If 1/4 of their pilots were flying E190s, they would put a lot more negotiating capital on the table to increase it. But since it doesn’t really affect anyone there, why waste it? Ditto for the 2 other legacies who don’t have them.
06-14-2019 | 11:25 AM
#274
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,559
Likes: 0
Not even close, I was editing while you responded and it was only trying to bring clarity. Not trying to invalidate anything. Just trying to clear up his response. You can understand it however your perception allows. Once again why I don’t post on here very often.
Now back to the actual constructive side of this discussion. ETOPS doesn’t require a separate bid class, it’s how the individual operator wants to manage it. However, like below the red line flying for us it does require currency and training. No one was talking about requiring anything simply posting how other operators choose to manage the same dilemma we will shortly be having. If there is one thing we all understand about JB is that they will do things there own way probably not the way any other carrier does it..
Now back to the actual constructive side of this discussion. ETOPS doesn’t require a separate bid class, it’s how the individual operator wants to manage it. However, like below the red line flying for us it does require currency and training. No one was talking about requiring anything simply posting how other operators choose to manage the same dilemma we will shortly be having. If there is one thing we all understand about JB is that they will do things there own way probably not the way any other carrier does it..
[MENTION=14677]Climbto450[/MENTION], thanks for sharing your insight. Hope all is well for you over there. Feel free to drop by anytime and dispel false tales!
06-14-2019 | 11:36 AM
#275
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,559
Likes: 0
DAL rates going into their current negotiations:
A321: 285.50
B739: 285.50
B738: 284.01
A320: 274.06
A319: 274.06
A223: 269.15
A221: 262.84
B717: 255.57
JB’s E190 rate is pathetic and should be at least JB’s A221 rate. JB’s A221 rate should be the current A223 rate. Dying fleet or new fleet not on property...these rates matter and this should have been a resounding no. The cost of training events will surpass the amount they’d have paid with decent rates.
A321: 285.50
B739: 285.50
B738: 284.01
A320: 274.06
A319: 274.06
A223: 269.15
A221: 262.84
B717: 255.57
JB’s E190 rate is pathetic and should be at least JB’s A221 rate. JB’s A221 rate should be the current A223 rate. Dying fleet or new fleet not on property...these rates matter and this should have been a resounding no. The cost of training events will surpass the amount they’d have paid with decent rates.
06-14-2019 | 12:27 PM
#276
Banned
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,473
Likes: 0
I decided to visit APC to see what peeps were saying about the bid, and what do I see but bluedriver getting schooled about his attitude by a pilot from a REAL ARILINE. Too funny. And sad at the same time.
[MENTION=14677]Climbto450[/MENTION], thanks for sharing your insight. Hope all is well for you over there. Feel free to drop by anytime and dispel false tales!
[MENTION=14677]Climbto450[/MENTION], thanks for sharing your insight. Hope all is well for you over there. Feel free to drop by anytime and dispel false tales!
06-14-2019 | 01:23 PM
#277
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,047
Likes: 0
From: B6
That’s our problem. We need negotiators and ultimately LEC reps willing to stand up for our worth and don’t move on when we ask and they say no next time.
And yes we would have. Artificially applying a 90% Bus rate to the 190 wasn’t sustainable. This shift was inevitable. Might be just as big when junior guys jump off the 320/321 and bid the 220 because those rates will be close.
And yes we would have. Artificially applying a 90% Bus rate to the 190 wasn’t sustainable. This shift was inevitable. Might be just as big when junior guys jump off the 320/321 and bid the 220 because those rates will be close.
Have to disagree with you. Our negotiators 2 of which who I know personally are the most honest and absolute men of character you can ask for. No need for anything else if you can't trust. I think they stood up for our worth and some will never be happy.....ever.
06-14-2019 | 01:25 PM
#278
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,047
Likes: 0
From: B6
I decided to visit APC to see what peeps were saying about the bid, and what do I see but bluedriver getting schooled about his attitude by a pilot from a REAL ARILINE. Too funny. And sad at the same time.
[MENTION=14677]Climbto450[/MENTION], thanks for sharing your insight. Hope all is well for you over there. Feel free to drop by anytime and dispel false tales!
[MENTION=14677]Climbto450[/MENTION], thanks for sharing your insight. Hope all is well for you over there. Feel free to drop by anytime and dispel false tales!
06-14-2019 | 01:33 PM
#279
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Capt
I decided to visit APC to see what peeps were saying about the bid, and what do I see but bluedriver getting schooled about his attitude by a pilot from a REAL ARILINE. Too funny. And sad at the same time.
[MENTION=14677]Climbto450[/MENTION], thanks for sharing your insight. Hope all is well for you over there. Feel free to drop by anytime and dispel false tales!
[MENTION=14677]Climbto450[/MENTION], thanks for sharing your insight. Hope all is well for you over there. Feel free to drop by anytime and dispel false tales!
Carry on.
06-14-2019 | 01:49 PM
#280
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,173
Likes: 27
I’ll judge them as negotiators based on the result they achieved, which in my opinion was subpar. That doesn’t diminish them as people or make them any less honorable. I respect the work they put in. I’m just disappointed with the outcome, that’s all. Sorry if I gave a different impression of what I was trying to convey.
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