JetBlue Latest and Greatest
06-27-2018, 11:29 AM
#6912
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 2,594
Originally Posted by PasserOGas
Yes, I understand the difference. It's semantics. A code share can be negotiated where they share revenue by "buying seats" on the other airline at cost. For example B6 could buy 45 seats on HA, and collect profits on flights to Honolulu without having to serve Honolulu. Further, if the CASM on HA is lower (read lower wages) then B6 benefits indirectly from that. But I am sure you knew that already.
06-27-2018, 11:38 AM
#6913
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
Originally Posted by Bozo the pilot
Of course. Did you know Passer, that B6 makes a hundred times more on their own metal?
06-27-2018, 11:41 AM
#6914
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 2,594
Originally Posted by BeatNavy
They also lose 100 times more on routes that aren’t profitable....like all that LGB flying. Codesharing is lower risk, lower reward, higher brand and customer exposure.
Now, please, point out the Scope areas that you dont like or better yet, feel vulnerable about. Thats not a challenge Navy- I just want to hear specific reasons.
I read this section and think it eliminates the biggest threat to us (RJs etc)and limits the codeshares.
Why am I wrong?
06-27-2018, 12:25 PM
#6915
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
Originally Posted by Bozo the pilot
Absolutely, but it can lead to growth of more routes, which was my main point.
Now, please, point out the Scope areas that you dont like or better yet, feel vulnerable about. Thats not a challenge Navy- I just want to hear specific reasons.
I read this section and think it eliminates the biggest threat to us (RJs etc)and limits the codeshares.
Why am I wrong?
Now, please, point out the Scope areas that you dont like or better yet, feel vulnerable about. Thats not a challenge Navy- I just want to hear specific reasons.
I read this section and think it eliminates the biggest threat to us (RJs etc)and limits the codeshares.
Why am I wrong?
As for domestic codeshares, unlimited codesharing could put our pax anywhere in say Alaska’s network, on a SkyWest RJ, under a domestic codeshare. Or on a Moxy flight. I’d rather operate like southwest with no codeshares domestically where we can fly them ourselves, or like the jetblue we’ve known for 18 years...the only codeshares we really have domestically are routes we can’t fly (piston Cape flights and JFK-HNL/LGB-HNL). Regardless of the revenue difference, unlimited codeshares disincentivizes organic growth. If you were management, why grow into a city if you can codeshare into it instead? Especially places like the west coast where our access is limited. If we just codeshare into a secondary west coast market, there’d be no real reason to try and actually grow there. From a business standpoint it’s great. When the downturn hits, our exposure is a lot lower. Our upfront capital outlay is a lot lower. Our cost on the route is a lot lower. And it still can add people to our network for basically no cost to us. From a pilot standpoint, I see it as a limiter to our organic growth...especially for a company that is as cheap as JetBlue when it comes to costs. I’m just a dumb pilot though. Maybe I’m wrong. I still haven’t heard how, though.
06-27-2018, 12:40 PM
#6916
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,881
Originally Posted by BeatNavy
Our codesharing is essentially unlimited in this TA both internationally and domestically. Got it...no CPAs. Great. Most of the scope section is good. The JV section is pretty good. And some codesharing helps fill our flights. Especially the international stuff with pax connecting on us. So I’m good with that, although I’d like to see limitations on it relating to our gaining the ability to fly the same routes prompting an end, or big limit to codeshares along the same routes.
As for domestic codeshares, unlimited codesharing could put our pax anywhere in say Alaska’s network, on a SkyWest RJ, under a domestic codeshare. Or on a Moxy flight. I’d rather operate like southwest with no codeshares domestically where we can fly them ourselves, or like the jetblue we’ve known for 18 years...the only codeshares we really have domestically are routes we can’t fly (piston Cape flights and JFK-HNL/LGB-HNL). Regardless of the revenue difference, unlimited codeshares disincentivizes organic growth. If you were management, why grow into a city if you can codeshare into it instead? Especially places like the west coast where our access is limited. If we just codeshare into a secondary west coast market, there’d be no real reason to try and actually grow there. From a business standpoint it’s great. When the downturn hits, our exposure is a lot lower. Our upfront capital outlay is a lot lower. Our cost on the route is a lot lower. And it still can add people to our network for basically no cost to us. From a pilot standpoint, I see it as a limiter to our organic growth...especially for a company that is as cheap as JetBlue when it comes to costs. I’m just a dumb pilot though. Maybe I’m wrong. I still haven’t heard how, though.
As for domestic codeshares, unlimited codesharing could put our pax anywhere in say Alaska’s network, on a SkyWest RJ, under a domestic codeshare. Or on a Moxy flight. I’d rather operate like southwest with no codeshares domestically where we can fly them ourselves, or like the jetblue we’ve known for 18 years...the only codeshares we really have domestically are routes we can’t fly (piston Cape flights and JFK-HNL/LGB-HNL). Regardless of the revenue difference, unlimited codeshares disincentivizes organic growth. If you were management, why grow into a city if you can codeshare into it instead? Especially places like the west coast where our access is limited. If we just codeshare into a secondary west coast market, there’d be no real reason to try and actually grow there. From a business standpoint it’s great. When the downturn hits, our exposure is a lot lower. Our upfront capital outlay is a lot lower. Our cost on the route is a lot lower. And it still can add people to our network for basically no cost to us. From a pilot standpoint, I see it as a limiter to our organic growth...especially for a company that is as cheap as JetBlue when it comes to costs. I’m just a dumb pilot though. Maybe I’m wrong. I still haven’t heard how, though.
We've started an ETOPS program and then gave up and put it back on the shelf many times in the last 3 years. We choose to "can't".
Otherwise you knocked it out of the park.
06-27-2018, 12:52 PM
#6917
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 2,594
Originally Posted by BeatNavy
Our codesharing is essentially unlimited in this TA both internationally and domestically. Got it...no CPAs. Great. Most of the scope section is good. The JV section is pretty good. And some codesharing helps fill our flights. Especially the international stuff with pax connecting on us. So I’m good with that, although I’d like to see limitations on it relating to our gaining the ability to fly the same routes prompting an end, or big limit to codeshares along the same routes.
As for domestic codeshares, unlimited codesharing could put our pax anywhere in say Alaska’s network, on a SkyWest RJ, under a domestic codeshare. Or on a Moxy flight. I’d rather operate like southwest with no codeshares domestically where we can fly them ourselves, or like the jetblue we’ve known for 18 years...the only codeshares we really have domestically are routes we can’t fly (piston Cape flights and JFK-HNL/LGB-HNL). Regardless of the revenue difference, unlimited codeshares disincentivizes organic growth. If you were management, why grow into a city if you can codeshare into it instead? Especially places like the west coast where our access is limited. If we just codeshare into a secondary west coast market, there’d be no real reason to try and actually grow there. From a business standpoint it’s great. When the downturn hits, our exposure is a lot lower. Our upfront capital outlay is a lot lower. Our cost on the route is a lot lower. And it still can add people to our network for basically no cost to us. From a pilot standpoint, I see it as a limiter to our organic growth...especially for a company that is as cheap as JetBlue when it comes to costs. I’m just a dumb pilot though. Maybe I’m wrong. I still haven’t heard how, though.
As for domestic codeshares, unlimited codesharing could put our pax anywhere in say Alaska’s network, on a SkyWest RJ, under a domestic codeshare. Or on a Moxy flight. I’d rather operate like southwest with no codeshares domestically where we can fly them ourselves, or like the jetblue we’ve known for 18 years...the only codeshares we really have domestically are routes we can’t fly (piston Cape flights and JFK-HNL/LGB-HNL). Regardless of the revenue difference, unlimited codeshares disincentivizes organic growth. If you were management, why grow into a city if you can codeshare into it instead? Especially places like the west coast where our access is limited. If we just codeshare into a secondary west coast market, there’d be no real reason to try and actually grow there. From a business standpoint it’s great. When the downturn hits, our exposure is a lot lower. Our upfront capital outlay is a lot lower. Our cost on the route is a lot lower. And it still can add people to our network for basically no cost to us. From a pilot standpoint, I see it as a limiter to our organic growth...especially for a company that is as cheap as JetBlue when it comes to costs. I’m just a dumb pilot though. Maybe I’m wrong. I still haven’t heard how, though.
Ref: TA 2018
Section 1 F
Paragraph 2 a. b.
We may have pax on a Horizon Q, but they will have pax on us as well for example.
06-27-2018, 01:04 PM
#6918
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 111
Originally Posted by BeatNavy
Our codesharing is essentially unlimited in this TA both internationally and domestically. Got it...no CPAs. Great. Most of the scope section is good. The JV section is pretty good. And some codesharing helps fill our flights. Especially the international stuff with pax connecting on us. So I’m good with that, although I’d like to see limitations on it relating to our gaining the ability to fly the same routes prompting an end, or big limit to codeshares along the same routes.
As for domestic codeshares, unlimited codesharing could put our pax anywhere in say Alaska’s network, on a SkyWest RJ, under a domestic codeshare. Or on a Moxy flight. I’d rather operate like southwest with no codeshares domestically where we can fly them ourselves, or like the jetblue we’ve known for 18 years...the only codeshares we really have domestically are routes we can’t fly (piston Cape flights and JFK-HNL/LGB-HNL). Regardless of the revenue difference, unlimited codeshares disincentivizes organic growth. If you were management, why grow into a city if you can codeshare into it instead? Especially places like the west coast where our access is limited. If we just codeshare into a secondary west coast market, there’d be no real reason to try and actually grow there. From a business standpoint it’s great. When the downturn hits, our exposure is a lot lower. Our upfront capital outlay is a lot lower. Our cost on the route is a lot lower. And it still can add people to our network for basically no cost to us. From a pilot standpoint, I see it as a limiter to our organic growth...especially for a company that is as cheap as JetBlue when it comes to costs. I’m just a dumb pilot though. Maybe I’m wrong. I still haven’t heard how, though.
As for domestic codeshares, unlimited codesharing could put our pax anywhere in say Alaska’s network, on a SkyWest RJ, under a domestic codeshare. Or on a Moxy flight. I’d rather operate like southwest with no codeshares domestically where we can fly them ourselves, or like the jetblue we’ve known for 18 years...the only codeshares we really have domestically are routes we can’t fly (piston Cape flights and JFK-HNL/LGB-HNL). Regardless of the revenue difference, unlimited codeshares disincentivizes organic growth. If you were management, why grow into a city if you can codeshare into it instead? Especially places like the west coast where our access is limited. If we just codeshare into a secondary west coast market, there’d be no real reason to try and actually grow there. From a business standpoint it’s great. When the downturn hits, our exposure is a lot lower. Our upfront capital outlay is a lot lower. Our cost on the route is a lot lower. And it still can add people to our network for basically no cost to us. From a pilot standpoint, I see it as a limiter to our organic growth...especially for a company that is as cheap as JetBlue when it comes to costs. I’m just a dumb pilot though. Maybe I’m wrong. I still haven’t heard how, though.
Tex
06-27-2018, 01:10 PM
#6919
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,881
Originally Posted by Bozo the pilot
Yes but we have to grow by 3% ASM as well as the block hour per hour. The limitations work in conjunction.
Ref: TA 2018
Section 1 F
Paragraph 2 a. b.
We may have pax on a Horizon Q, but they will have pax on us as well for example.
Ref: TA 2018
Section 1 F
Paragraph 2 a. b.
We may have pax on a Horizon Q, but they will have pax on us as well for example.
2. That 3% is a very low bar and it's it's a growth rate well below any historical BlueJet average I'm aware of.
06-27-2018, 01:27 PM
#6920
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,473
Originally Posted by Bluedriver
1. That's only required to add or amend an agreement, not to continue an agreement.
2. That 3% is a very low bar and it's it's a growth rate well below any historical BlueJet average I'm aware of.
2. That 3% is a very low bar and it's it's a growth rate well below any historical BlueJet average I'm aware of.
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