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Old 08-14-2019, 09:53 AM
  #8251  
The REAL Bluedriver
 
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Originally Posted by likeitis
Not necessarily, most likely the union would receive the punishment. So we all get punished for the few.
Just not correct.

If the union (or notable group of pilots) is shown to have ORGANIZED or COORDINATED the withdrawal of overtime, then sure. If not, then not dude.

The data is collected, but if there is no evidence (provable) of coordination, then there is nothing they can do with that data.
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:55 AM
  #8252  
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Originally Posted by Mattio
So if someone were to stop doing as many RSA's simply because their family life changed concurrently with stalled contract negotiations etc, they could be convicted of an illegal work action? Just making sure I'm understanding this correctly. If so, I'm glad I rarely do RSA/VDA in the first place!
Yes, it's a federal crime under 36 CFR §261.16(c).
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Old 08-14-2019, 09:58 AM
  #8253  
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Originally Posted by jtrain609
Yes, it's a federal crime under 36 CFR §261.16(c).
Not sure if this is a joke, but it's a federal crime to have your family/financial circumstances change?

Don't get me wrong, based on your post history I could definitely believe you would say/think that is true...

It's not.
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Old 08-14-2019, 11:22 AM
  #8254  
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Originally Posted by Bluedriver
Just not correct.

If the union (or notable group of pilots) is shown to have ORGANIZED or COORDINATED the withdrawal of overtime, then sure. If not, then not dude.

The data is collected, but if there is no evidence (provable) of coordination, then there is nothing they can do with that data.
Show me one time in the last 30 years an airline took an employee group to court and lost? Just look at AMR mechanics from a couple days ago.
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Old 08-14-2019, 11:41 AM
  #8255  
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Originally Posted by likeitis
Show me one time in the last 30 years an airline took an employee group to court and lost? Just look at AMR mechanics from a couple days ago.
But nothing actually happened. Just look at spirit. The union got sued lost but pilots never changed their ways. They got a contract a month later
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Old 08-14-2019, 11:44 AM
  #8256  
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Originally Posted by likeitis
Show me one time in the last 30 years an airline took an employee group to court and lost? Just look at AMR mechanics from a couple days ago.
How many times have pilots/unions ended up paying anything, or otherwise faced any meaningful repercussions in work action lawsuits? They are about as effective as filing a grievance against the company for CBA violations.
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Old 08-14-2019, 11:50 AM
  #8257  
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Originally Posted by SaintNick
But nothing actually happened. Just look at spirit. The union got sued lost but pilots never changed their ways. They got a contract a month later
Maybe not on paper but you will lose any good faith with the mediator. How much negotiating capital did APA lose when they were fined $45 million back in 1999? I'm sure they gave up something to wipe that off the books.
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Old 08-14-2019, 11:55 AM
  #8258  
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Originally Posted by likeitis
Show me one time in the last 30 years an airline took an employee group to court and lost? Just look at AMR mechanics from a couple days ago.
You missed by a MILE. Those lawsuits were based on evidence of COORDINATION and/or an organized effort.

What you should have asked is: How many CBA negotiations concluded (eventually) with NO LAWSUIT filed by the company against the pilots/work group?

Read those two paragraphs again. And again. As many times as it takes until you understand.

JB's own CBA negotiations did in-fact conclude without a lawsuit, even though many pilots did eventually stop picking up overtime. Sure, several pilots did continue picking up overtime, many stopped.

The company had the data, but they didn't have enough evidence of a COORDINATED and/or ORGANIZED campaign.

You are talking about things you don't understand.

Last edited by Bluedriver; 08-14-2019 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 08-14-2019, 11:56 AM
  #8259  
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Originally Posted by likeitis
Maybe not on paper but you will lose any good faith with the mediator. How much negotiating capital did APA lose when they were fined $45 million back in 1999? I'm sure they gave up something to wipe that off the books.
Again, how many CBA negotiations concluded without a lawsuit? MOST!

You are cherry picking the overwhelming MINORITY of CBA negotiations that had a lawsuit, and then taking it out of context to say that the same would happen simply because individual pilots decided they were no longer interested in flying overtime.

That is not the case.
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Old 08-14-2019, 12:31 PM
  #8260  
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Originally Posted by Bluedriver
Again, how many CBA negotiations concluded without a lawsuit? MOST!

You are cherry picking the overwhelming MINORITY of CBA negotiations that had a lawsuit, and then taking it out of context to say that the same would happen simply because individual pilots decided they were no longer interested in flying overtime.

That is not the case.
Maybe so but we all know the epidemic of pilots at this airline who can't survive day to day without crediting 100 hours plus each month. So if the pilot group actually pulled a miracle and rowed together next time the data would be obvious. Not holding my breath.
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