Like most degrees, it teaches you about all the "important facts"... and then you get in the real world and learn all the important facts.

But for real, I've got an aviation degree and I'm in the aviation field. So it fits. And that's nice.

 

Where did anyone say you are guaranteed a job at a major?? I know a bunch of good pilots that didn't get hired at any of the Majors but have recently gone to American because of the Flow. I've also seen many that probably didn't deserve a job at a major get a job either through the flow or our Pref. Hiring. We had a few FO's with no PIC time get hired at American through Pref. Hiring So what's the point???
The quick upgrade is important today because we are about to see 1,000 upon 1,000 of pilots retiring over then next 10 years. We are seeing a window that probably occurs once every 25-30 years. Yes everyone is going to get a shot if they want but it doesn't mean they will get hired. Having a Flow is a great Get out of Jail Card to have if all else has failed. And that will get pilots. Just because you come to ENY, PSA or PDT doesn't mean you have to go to American. And if it's a big deal then get your PIC time and go to Virgin, JetBlue, or Alligiant and then apply to American and I'm sure you'll still get an interview.

 

I think you're missing my point. I'm sure you would agree with me that it is not a good thing if the only way to AA is through a flow. And there shouldn't be any "get out of jail free cards" in the first place. This is a profession- and I hate when people fail to give this job the professionalism it demands. I see too many people already in the regionals who act like children and look like slobs. A "get out of jail card" aka guaranteed job at AA isn't going to help that. (The I don't get paid enough to care excuse is just that- an excuse, and a poor one) Just because PSA hired someone doesn't mean they deserve a job at AA. Sorry thats a major annoyance of mine.

And I'm saying that many are suggesting that a quick upgrade is a fast track to a job at a major, it is not. It is a fast track to TPIC time. Logging time is the easy part. Getting the job is the hard part, which you still have to be successful at. Many dismiss the second half of the equation or imply that it will come just as easily as when their number got called to upgrade. Im speaking in general terms about the general consensus on this forum.

And finally, if you put two job candidates up against each other for a job, one FO with no PIC time who has a good attitude, goes to job fairs, networks, volunteers, has good grades, well rounded personality and carries himself as a true professional vs. a line captain with some TPIC who's simply "whinging for a call", the FO gets (at least) the interview, and probably the job every time. Just because you needed 1000 TPIC 15 years ago doesn't mean thats what major airlines are looking for today.

 

So with the projected need for pilots at the major level, will flows such as the one at psa only allow you to get a job at AA when your number comes up, or since the projected "need" will be greater, wod someone essentially be able to apply "sooner" than their number allows? New to 121 so trying to figure it out. PSA looks to be the best fit for me, but I'd also like a shot at the majors when the time comes.

 

Since it's not really a "flow" they call you up based on your seniority number. Some senior pilots may choose to bypass that right to interview at AA, so it's not like they are forced to get out. That means the opportunity will be offered to the next one in line....and that's without taking into account attrition.

I do agree with whoever said earlier that the wholly owned will try to keep their hiring in house in the best interest of their regional, but I also do believe that the issue with hiring will become so difficult that any majors will eventually have issues hiring, just like the regionals are now. I know it sounds crazy, but the pool will eventually dry up due to the amount of pilots needed vs amount of pilots that actually exist to take that specific job.

 

I agree with you 100%. But you are trying to make a flying job seem like it's more then it is. It's not rocket science for sure. For many years people would get hired without a College degree because it was experience that mattered. But today with technology experience doesn't seem to hold the same value it once did.

It's all about supply and demand.

 

Everyone has there reasons. Imagine making 100,000 dollars a year 4 vacation slots, living in base and pretty much making your schedule exactly the way you want it each month. There are many people that could care less to fly a bigger plane and make more money. They are happy.

I've been in the same boat and my flow number is approaching. It's not a easy choice to make. Nobody wants to commute and nobody wants to uproot there family.

To each his own. But the good thing about the flow is now you have choices.

 

I don't think I am my friend. While day to day this job isn't necessarily difficult, it carries tremendous responsibility. Compared to most other jobs the tolerance for error is basically nil. Its the most scrutinized profession in the country and for good reason. When things actually do go wrong the consequences are disastrous and permanent. We should be trying to raise our standards not make excuses for keeping them low. How can you claim in the same breath that you deserve to get paid more yet there isn't much to your job in the first place?

People in here need to stop getting caught in the group mentality that were blue collar laborers and nothing more. Self fulfilling prophecy.

 

You want to raise the standards??? Raise the pay and you'll get more qualified people. Like I said it's all about supply and demand. Not everyone can be a Dr. but most anyone can be a pilot. Why??? Because like I said it's not a difficult job. Common Sense, Good instructor, Some Stick and Rudder skills and you can do the job. We can easily put a 250 hour pilot into a CRJ and let him go fly. Not everyone can be a Dr, Lawyer or Engineer. That's all I'm saying.

Most people fly because they have a love for it. Management knows that! And at times have taken advantage of that love. Look how easily most regional airlines have screwed over one another. Not to my professional people screw over one another like the airlines.

 

Raise the pay? Excuse me you can't be serious- your company just voted in concessions in the form of a B scale, strictly FOR new talent!

And I'm talking about professionalism, I think it's seriously lacking in the regionals. This is a job that because of the responsibility demands professionalism and to argue otherwise because you can train anyone to do it is nothing more than a poor rationalization. I guess you and I don't see eye to eye on this issue and that's just fine.