PDT News and Rumors
08-30-2014, 07:44 PM
#5421
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 2,035
Originally Posted by BSOuthisplace
For those that are trying to convince us to vote no, save your breath. It's going to pass by an embarrassingly large margin and there's really nothing you or I can say to change that. The fact that no one on here understood how senior our pilot group is proves to me you know nothing about our pilot group, so in my mind your opinion is worthless. To those saying that if we vote this down we will still have jobs, again you have proven zero knowledge of our pilot group, and the state of the aircraft we operate. So basically what I'm saying is, move on.
P.S., Can you tell your negotiating committee at Envoy to stop trying to take our mainline slots. Thanks.
P.S., Can you tell your negotiating committee at Envoy to stop trying to take our mainline slots. Thanks.
If your pilot group is so "senior", there should be some there that remember when pattern bargaining meant that each pilot group tried to improve upon the current best contract of their peers.
Now you guys have apparently all been brainwashed by management into believing that you better sign off on the first crummy concessionary contract that they offer or it's lights out.
Hasn't your "senior" pilot group seen this same B/S by management time after time? They're making BILLIONS not millions in profit per quarter and they need concessions of any sort, really???
They have used the "doom and gloom" tactics with every single pilot group in every single attempt at getting concessions. That's just one of their many Smith and Henderson directed "negotiating tactics".
We finally have age 65, 117, and the new ATP rules on our side...
Please, don't throw this opportunity to tell Dougie NO away(along with your fellow flight crews at Envoy, Silver, Republic and Expressjet that have already voted NO)!
Last edited by Paid2fly; 08-30-2014 at 08:05 PM.
08-30-2014, 08:38 PM
#5422
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,839
Originally Posted by Bzzt
I don't know much about PDT, was it a good company before? It seems like guys with 35 years there have had multiple opportunities to move on to bigger and better things.
Henson, later PDT, was/is a pretty top drawer outfit, especially in the late 80's. Good company, good equipment, good bases and a mature ALPA contract. Paid medical, a 'A' fund, and heck, even crew meals.
PDT's difference with many regionals was that a far larger proportion of it's pilot group were long term guys. There were MANY guys who came out of 20 in the military, and wanted to settle in or around their former bases or fair weather locals (TPA, JAX, etc) and not commute. Others liked the low cost basing options (EWN & LYH). In any event, people were not likely to leave unless they had something really rock solid lined up that was better.
After 1992 or so, USAir started outsourcing the outsourcing, and the fun-ride at PDT was coming to an end. I think the last "true" growth aircraft arrived in early 1993 (-100s, 97XHA aircraft, I think). The contract remained, and was even slightly improved upon in 1993, but upgrade time was 4 years. With the recession, by 1998, upgrade times had spiraled past 5 years. Even when the -200s arrived in 1995, 10 aircraft got shipped to ALG to make sure that PDT remained the same size.
Don't get me wrong, ALG had their own set of problems, and got hit hard with the nerf bat in 1993 as well, with the loss of nearly half their airline (1900s & Shorts ops sold off)
PDTs problem was always two-fold....to have a reasonable upgrade times, in comparison to your contemporaries, you needed growth or attrition. Some places had both going for them. But PDT had neither. Things were always "good enough" that people just stayed unless they were really motivated. I flew with folks all the time that were really comfy. Captains had their townhouse on the water in EWN, 10 minute drive to the airport, parking right next to the gate, making some coin, not working TOO hard, and heck, maybe even a small boat to fish from. What's not to like?
The loss of the "Florida flying" and the merger with ALG caused it's own set of problems, but that was after my time there. Maybe someone else can fill in that part.
Nu
08-30-2014, 11:10 PM
#5423
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,220
Ok besides the flow which trust me noone cares about that much, this is a healthy pay rate for pdt pilots. It's 15+ dollars an hour for captains.
Captain year 10
Dash 8 - 100 $64 per hour
Dash 8 - 300 (which mdt based pilots don't even fly, our largest base) $69 per hour
Emb 175 $85 per hour
So keep on mind a mdt captain is looking at a 20 dollar an hour raise, just saying that's kinda hard to turn down, even with the detractors in the contract which are mostly negligible I mean lose 1/2 an hour per month of sick pay? Vacation is paid at 4.2 per hour? The only real questionable section is an increase in health care which is already set to increase every year in our current cba? Just wanted to throw this out there would you turn down a pay raise like that?, should we reject it and hope for another couple dollars risking almost certain death in a few years? What kind of gains do we really expect we can get above that if we say no? Probably not a whole lot I think management is pretty set on their end hence it's taken us to almost the end of the line to get a ta finally, unlike psa put NC has been negotiating for a long time, not like we're just taking the first offer and accepting it there has been a lot of sitting at the table with management for years to try and find a decent agreement for jets, just that usually psa undercuts us and takes the first offer from management without any negotiations negating any progress we make. Just my two cents I understand not everyone agrees with this.
Captain year 10
Dash 8 - 100 $64 per hour
Dash 8 - 300 (which mdt based pilots don't even fly, our largest base) $69 per hour
Emb 175 $85 per hour
So keep on mind a mdt captain is looking at a 20 dollar an hour raise, just saying that's kinda hard to turn down, even with the detractors in the contract which are mostly negligible I mean lose 1/2 an hour per month of sick pay? Vacation is paid at 4.2 per hour? The only real questionable section is an increase in health care which is already set to increase every year in our current cba? Just wanted to throw this out there would you turn down a pay raise like that?, should we reject it and hope for another couple dollars risking almost certain death in a few years? What kind of gains do we really expect we can get above that if we say no? Probably not a whole lot I think management is pretty set on their end hence it's taken us to almost the end of the line to get a ta finally, unlike psa put NC has been negotiating for a long time, not like we're just taking the first offer and accepting it there has been a lot of sitting at the table with management for years to try and find a decent agreement for jets, just that usually psa undercuts us and takes the first offer from management without any negotiations negating any progress we make. Just my two cents I understand not everyone agrees with this.
Just saying, you will get down the industry just for a pay raise that is below industry standard, other than PSA.
08-31-2014, 12:43 AM
#5425
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,220
"All I say is that we at Envoy would help PDT if there's a merger if you guys hold the line." Please quantify exactly what "help" we might anticipate?
Like I said, how much damage would do a 355 people in a merge? Not that much, so for me it would be irrelevant. I rather have PDT guys joining us after a vote no, than bringing subpar wages and higher health care into the JBAC table.
Remember that concessions you give it won't come back, specially in a merger situation.
But that's just my point of view. I understand the "we will close you" sentiment and the fear of losing a job. Last decade it was possible and we saw it. Now this is a different decade, there's not a surplus of pilots going into the regionals.
It's your time to stand like you guys did before, now with the biggest regionals by your side. It's the only way to stop corporate greed.
Again, it's your guys decisions.
08-31-2014, 04:11 AM
#5426
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 200
Originally Posted by PilotJ3
There was a LOA proposal that was posted in EL sometime in the beginning of the year. It was a draft for a merger between Envoy and PDT. It had flow thru agreements and other things in it.
Like I said, how much damage would do a 355 people in a merge? Not that much, so for me it would be irrelevant. I rather have PDT guys joining us after a vote no, than bringing subpar wages and higher health care into the JBAC table.
Remember that concessions you give it won't come back, specially in a merger situation.
But that's just my point of view. I understand the "we will close you" sentiment and the fear of losing a job. Last decade it was possible and we saw it. Now this is a different decade, there's not a surplus of pilots going into the regionals.
It's your time to stand like you guys did before, now with the biggest regionals by your side. It's the only way to stop corporate greed.
Again, it's your guys decisions.
Like I said, how much damage would do a 355 people in a merge? Not that much, so for me it would be irrelevant. I rather have PDT guys joining us after a vote no, than bringing subpar wages and higher health care into the JBAC table.
Remember that concessions you give it won't come back, specially in a merger situation.
But that's just my point of view. I understand the "we will close you" sentiment and the fear of losing a job. Last decade it was possible and we saw it. Now this is a different decade, there's not a surplus of pilots going into the regionals.
It's your time to stand like you guys did before, now with the biggest regionals by your side. It's the only way to stop corporate greed.
Again, it's your guys decisions.
08-31-2014, 05:32 AM
#5427
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Position: EMB-145 CA
Posts: 456
Originally Posted by billyho
Funny how they lump republic in as holding the line. Hahaha I remember all those FO's making 30k a year at PDT jumping ship to Republic to fly a shiny 175 for 15k a year? Really? Let the market play it's self out. If our deal is so bad then nobody will come here. They (republic) would jump all over this deal. Don't fool yourself.
Don't fool yourself into thinking our 7 year old contract is something we're happy with. You're "TA" hurts our ability to get what we deserve. You can get more by sticking with the rest of us, because you will see hiring is hard enough that many of the promises are as empty as the classes will be.
08-31-2014, 06:04 AM
#5428
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Reverse Cowgirl
Posts: 546
I understand the pressure on PDT pilots right now. That pay scale is toooo low though.
I don' think many new hires will fall for that flowthrough though. Let's say you're the first one hired. At 3 per month it will still take many many years to flow. Even considering not everyone will flow as a lot will go to other airlines.
There will always be a few though. Those outstation bases will probably close.
I think the best we can hope for here at Envoy is that they won't get the hiring numbers they hope to.
They obviously want the airline to keep running so turning down the first deal thrown at you is a gamble but I think appropriate.
I don' think many new hires will fall for that flowthrough though. Let's say you're the first one hired. At 3 per month it will still take many many years to flow. Even considering not everyone will flow as a lot will go to other airlines.
There will always be a few though. Those outstation bases will probably close.
I think the best we can hope for here at Envoy is that they won't get the hiring numbers they hope to.
They obviously want the airline to keep running so turning down the first deal thrown at you is a gamble but I think appropriate.
08-31-2014, 06:08 AM
#5429
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,450
Originally Posted by QuagmireGiggity
I understand the pressure on PDT pilots right now. That pay scale is toooo low though.
I don' think many new hires will fall for that flowthrough though. Let's say you're the first one hired. At 3 per month it will still take many many years to flow. Even considering not everyone will flow as a lot will go to other airlines.
There will always be a few though. Those outstation bases will probably close.
I think the best we can hope for here at Envoy is that they won't get the hiring numbers they hope to.
They obviously want the airline to keep running so turning down the first deal thrown at you is a gamble but I think appropriate.
I don' think many new hires will fall for that flowthrough though. Let's say you're the first one hired. At 3 per month it will still take many many years to flow. Even considering not everyone will flow as a lot will go to other airlines.
There will always be a few though. Those outstation bases will probably close.
I think the best we can hope for here at Envoy is that they won't get the hiring numbers they hope to.
They obviously want the airline to keep running so turning down the first deal thrown at you is a gamble but I think appropriate.
08-31-2014, 06:12 AM
#5430
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,450
Originally Posted by slumav505
We would vote that down at roughly 85%, again.
Don't fool yourself into thinking our 7 year old contract is something we're happy with. You're "TA" hurts our ability to get what we deserve. You can get more by sticking with the rest of us, because you will see hiring is hard enough that many of the promises are as empty as the classes will be.
Don't fool yourself into thinking our 7 year old contract is something we're happy with. You're "TA" hurts our ability to get what we deserve. You can get more by sticking with the rest of us, because you will see hiring is hard enough that many of the promises are as empty as the classes will be.
Sorry but any Republic person crying about making 15k a year in the right seat, No Cx pay, crazy insurance cost can go pound sand!!! You knew what you were getting into when you took that crappy job. Pllllllleeeeaseeee Sell it to someone else.
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