PDT News and Rumors
09-22-2016 | 12:02 PM
#9471
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 419
Likes: 0
From: rabble rouser
Would it be a bad move to work here if I have been working at 9E for 5 months? AA has always been One of my top choices but 9E is a really good place to work also.. The flow agreement is really tempting since our passing rate at interviews with Delta is only 40%.
How would the commute be from MIA to the PDT bases?
How would the commute be from MIA to the PDT bases?
hmm not sure, think it might be a month or so?
line holders 12, maybe 13 if you're lucky on the dash
yes it is
hahaha, thats been 'coming soon' since like march
09-22-2016 | 12:05 PM
#9472
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
Oh, please. This is the same guy that said the flow wouldn't exist at all in any capacity in 2017. Sorry chicken little, the sky is not falling here at Piedmont.
The Dash replacement seems to be going quite well. Our 10th -145 is scheduled to arrive today. Roughly 1/4 of all Piedmont pilots are now listed on the -145 roster as of the latest permanent bid. Sure, the training department is slightly backed up, but new instructors are becoming available weekly. Once instructor staffing rights itself, the training backlog will start to diminish.
We're currently ~10 pilots from achieving the 4 pilot flow/month. Let's take some numbers and math real quick. Currently, we are flowing around #90 on the seniority list. If a new hire came in today as #466, he/she would have 10 years to flow if every single pilot in front of them decided to exercise their option to flow. We know that's unrealistic. When the flow jumps up to 4/mo-which is all but inevitable at this point-that number comes down to the 7 year range. These numbers certainly aren't ideal, and they're definitely not the numbers that our recruiters are advertising. But, it's not 15 years. That's a flat out lie.
I'll give you credit when you say that growth can only occur if there's pilots to support it. But the support is there, and classes are growing. Yeah, the flow can be stopped by AAG. They can also decide to liquidate all of their WOs and tack us on the bottom of the seniority list. I doubt either of these situations happens in the near future.
The Dash replacement seems to be going quite well. Our 10th -145 is scheduled to arrive today. Roughly 1/4 of all Piedmont pilots are now listed on the -145 roster as of the latest permanent bid. Sure, the training department is slightly backed up, but new instructors are becoming available weekly. Once instructor staffing rights itself, the training backlog will start to diminish.
We're currently ~10 pilots from achieving the 4 pilot flow/month. Let's take some numbers and math real quick. Currently, we are flowing around #90 on the seniority list. If a new hire came in today as #466, he/she would have 10 years to flow if every single pilot in front of them decided to exercise their option to flow. We know that's unrealistic. When the flow jumps up to 4/mo-which is all but inevitable at this point-that number comes down to the 7 year range. These numbers certainly aren't ideal, and they're definitely not the numbers that our recruiters are advertising. But, it's not 15 years. That's a flat out lie.
I'll give you credit when you say that growth can only occur if there's pilots to support it. But the support is there, and classes are growing. Yeah, the flow can be stopped by AAG. They can also decide to liquidate all of their WOs and tack us on the bottom of the seniority list. I doubt either of these situations happens in the near future.
It will be interesting to see if they concentrate everything on the WO, and what they will do with the contract carriers.
09-22-2016 | 01:51 PM
#9473
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 637
Likes: 0
From: N/A
The flow is nice to have in your back pocket. Treat it like a last resort (a pretty nice last resort I might add). If all else fails you have it to fall back on. In the meantime keep your DAL and UAL apps updated.
09-22-2016 | 01:52 PM
#9474
Happy at PDT
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 983
Likes: 0
From: EMB-145 CA
So if you are a new hire soon you'll be around #475, and say the airline grows like it plans too to 600, very possible with almost $60,000 for people hopping regionals and $54,000 for new hires on top of 1000 hour upgrades and flow, so definitely possible to grow to that number. Once the hiring is straight in to the jet (for the must fly a sjs guys) very soon and announce a new base to attract a different region that growth could be even larger. Piedmont has already announced if they can get the pilots the jets will keep coming.
Now you're looking at 5 per month / 60 a year, so if # 90 is around where you flow and you are 125 from the bottom there are 385 flowing in front of you, let's say 50 just 50 which is only 13% (small percentage) moves on to a major/mid level/corporate/terminated/whatever that puts 335 above you and a little over 5 and a half years.
So in conclusion it is realistic if you decide to work for Piedmont you can flow a little over 5 years, now if they grow even more and somehow more than 13% of the pilots flowing above you (extremely possible) decide to move on the number will be 5 or less. You're also looking at a place where you can bid captain as fast as possible and become eligible quicker to move on outside the flow. Just saying
Now you're looking at 5 per month / 60 a year, so if # 90 is around where you flow and you are 125 from the bottom there are 385 flowing in front of you, let's say 50 just 50 which is only 13% (small percentage) moves on to a major/mid level/corporate/terminated/whatever that puts 335 above you and a little over 5 and a half years.
So in conclusion it is realistic if you decide to work for Piedmont you can flow a little over 5 years, now if they grow even more and somehow more than 13% of the pilots flowing above you (extremely possible) decide to move on the number will be 5 or less. You're also looking at a place where you can bid captain as fast as possible and become eligible quicker to move on outside the flow. Just saying
09-22-2016 | 02:34 PM
#9475
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 490
Likes: 0
So if you are a new hire soon you'll be around #475, and say the airline grows like it plans too to 600, very possible with almost $60,000 for people hopping regionals and $54,000 for new hires on top of 1000 hour upgrades and flow, so definitely possible to grow to that number. Once the hiring is straight in to the jet (for the must fly a sjs guys) very soon and announce a new base to attract a different region that growth could be even larger. Piedmont has already announced if they can get the pilots the jets will keep coming.
Now you're looking at 5 per month / 60 a year, so if # 90 is around where you flow and you are 125 from the bottom there are 385 flowing in front of you, let's say 50 just 50 which is only 13% (small percentage) moves on to a major/mid level/corporate/terminated/whatever that puts 335 above you and a little over 5 and a half years.
So in conclusion it is realistic if you decide to work for Piedmont you can flow a little over 5 years, now if they grow even more and somehow more than 13% of the pilots flowing above you (extremely possible) decide to move on the number will be 5 or less. You're also looking at a place where you can bid captain as fast as possible and become eligible quicker to move on outside the flow. Just saying
Now you're looking at 5 per month / 60 a year, so if # 90 is around where you flow and you are 125 from the bottom there are 385 flowing in front of you, let's say 50 just 50 which is only 13% (small percentage) moves on to a major/mid level/corporate/terminated/whatever that puts 335 above you and a little over 5 and a half years.
So in conclusion it is realistic if you decide to work for Piedmont you can flow a little over 5 years, now if they grow even more and somehow more than 13% of the pilots flowing above you (extremely possible) decide to move on the number will be 5 or less. You're also looking at a place where you can bid captain as fast as possible and become eligible quicker to move on outside the flow. Just saying
Do you have statistics on your current attrition from the top half of the list? Junior FO's jumping ship don't really have an effect here.
09-22-2016 | 02:48 PM
#9476
Happy at PDT
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 983
Likes: 0
From: EMB-145 CA
Exactly. Over 5 years. It doesn't get under 5 unless you guys grow BEYOND the target. In an industry that's struggling to maintain capacity, I believe it's fair to say that's very unlikely.
Do you have statistics on your current attrition from the top half of the list? Junior FO's jumping ship don't really have an effect here.
Do you have statistics on your current attrition from the top half of the list? Junior FO's jumping ship don't really have an effect here.
09-22-2016 | 03:09 PM
#9477
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,191
Likes: 0
From: Professional Eugoogoolizer at the Derek Zoolander Center For Kids Who Can’t Read Good
Pdt had been an excellent choice for me.
09-22-2016 | 04:34 PM
#9478
Mx Delay
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Exactly. Over 5 years. It doesn't get under 5 unless you guys grow BEYOND the target. In an industry that's struggling to maintain capacity, I believe it's fair to say that's very unlikely.
Do you have statistics on your current attrition from the top half of the list? Junior FO's jumping ship don't really have an effect here.
Do you have statistics on your current attrition from the top half of the list? Junior FO's jumping ship don't really have an effect here.
You do also realize that your recruiting dept. is projecting that same, unrealistic 5-year flow? Time to take your talents back to the Envoy thread. You can take your bowl of sour grapes with you.
09-22-2016 | 04:42 PM
#9479
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,153
Likes: 341
What's the current DOH for a flow? What is it estimated in a year, two years etc. with their current flow rate? I thought I heard Piedmont was currently flowing DOH 2000 guys. Seems like a huge stretch to go down to 5 years.
Isn't the retention bonus just $10,000 a year? Up to $20,000? It doesn't come close to Endeavors pay.
It's good there is movement in the industry again. I remember back when I was hired in 2005 we saw similar movement to what is happening now (minus the pay and bonus increases). Mostly however because the RJ was taking over and mainline was shrinking. Although there was some limited hiring at United and Delta then. Lots of folks were trying to go to SWA.
Isn't the retention bonus just $10,000 a year? Up to $20,000? It doesn't come close to Endeavors pay.
It's good there is movement in the industry again. I remember back when I was hired in 2005 we saw similar movement to what is happening now (minus the pay and bonus increases). Mostly however because the RJ was taking over and mainline was shrinking. Although there was some limited hiring at United and Delta then. Lots of folks were trying to go to SWA.
09-22-2016 | 04:49 PM
#9480
Mx Delay
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Looks like the flow is at 2004 hires right now. To be fair, there's a stretch of 10 pilots on the seniority list that spans 3 years of seniority. So the length in terms of time on property is dropping rather quickly.
The bonuses are as follows: $15,000 for new hires. An additional $5,000 for prior 121. FO retention is paid out over 2 years at a total of $20,000.
The bonuses are as follows: $15,000 for new hires. An additional $5,000 for prior 121. FO retention is paid out over 2 years at a total of $20,000.
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