Skywest
12-22-2014 | 09:30 PM
#8301
Free KoolAid 602 685 4000
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
From: N88301
And when they start sliding backwards because the current senior guys start looking at the lines, and thinking, hmmmmn, them lines look pretty tasty, think I will get me some, and bid the ERJ. This is how it has been at SKYW, if not every airline out there when a new airframe hits the certificate. Junior guys go whoohoo! Instant seniority, right up to the point where the guys who have been around awhile and have seen how SKYW operates, wait and see how it shapes up.
Reading how the "new guys" have all these "new" ideas on how to revamp upgrades and "fix" the problem(them being junior), and redesign the industry. Sorry sport, six months ain't nothin" I have farts that last longer, this is an endurance game, and if .005% of the stuff posted here and on other forums are what ya'all truly believe, you are in the perfect position to have the wool pulled right down over your eyes, and the ball gag cinched up nice and tight, just like it has been for the last 2 generations of pilots. The espousing of Ayn Rand and "Free Market Economics" makes Jonny O. ,Hulas and J.Smallsack as well as the rest of the industry execs, get mini-chubbies.
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it....
George Santayana
Reading how the "new guys" have all these "new" ideas on how to revamp upgrades and "fix" the problem(them being junior), and redesign the industry. Sorry sport, six months ain't nothin" I have farts that last longer, this is an endurance game, and if .005% of the stuff posted here and on other forums are what ya'all truly believe, you are in the perfect position to have the wool pulled right down over your eyes, and the ball gag cinched up nice and tight, just like it has been for the last 2 generations of pilots. The espousing of Ayn Rand and "Free Market Economics" makes Jonny O. ,Hulas and J.Smallsack as well as the rest of the industry execs, get mini-chubbies.
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it....
George Santayana
.
12-23-2014 | 08:06 AM
#8302
MK Ultra Candidate
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
From: Prime Leader of Boko Harumph
Just like your screen name, who cares what you think. You spend 6 months in the industry and are an instant veteran with all the answers and solutions. Newsflash Violet, while you think you are a delicate snowflake, unique and different than every other one, you follow a entirely predictable pattern, pattern stupidity. But that's OK, you like many are just flashes in the pan, you will be working at Homer Depot or some other place that your expensive "Aviation Degree" will qualify you for, shortly. You don't like my posts because they taint your fantasy, guess what your fantasy is a nightmare, this industry will take your hopes and dreams, place them in a burlap bag along with a cinder block, drop them in the local pond and drown them like unwanted kittens. Now what was your solution for the upgrade question again....
12-23-2014 | 08:12 AM
#8303
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 0
I'm not sure why anyone would bid sfo erj as a new hire. Pretty sure TG himself said they will bump junior guys out of base if they have to to make room for Brasilia transitions in the "Q & A"on swol. Or was that just my eyes fooling me??
12-23-2014 | 08:20 AM
#8304
Banned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 0
From: EMB 145 CPT
I understand Expressjet wanting ons list but what does that bring to the slywest people? Expressjet is a sinking ship with mostly 50 seater aircraft with continuous shrinking and an apparent toxic corporate culture. One list would just mean a worse upgrade and probably QOL over what we have now
Man you are definitely consistent with the union talk, I'll give you that. I do not think consolidating the regional seniority list has to be a union action. In fact I think as soon as you mention union and consolidation in the same sentence, the next thing that comes out of people's mouths is Railway Labor Act. The unions cannot, by law, play a functional role in the consolidation. But if WE, as an industry, were to petition for it then perhaps it could happen. Obviously, thousands of variables (and personalities) involved but I think it could happen. It cannot happen with a union.
We're not talking about one list for just ExpressJet and Skywest. We are talking about one list across the entire regional pilot group. The benefits to having one list far outweigh the detractors. Here are a few reasons why:
1) If you leave your current regional airline to fly for another regional airline you start at the bottom of the list and at the bottom of the pay-scale.
2) If you're a commuter your non-rev benefits are also greatly diminished. You are at the bottom of the turd bowl again.
3) The individual list at various companies strongly skews the balance of power to the side of management. For example, what incentive does AAG have to keep Envoy pilots happy? They are one of the more senior pilot groups (more expensive). Why would AAG award them contracts to fly when there are cheaper pilot groups?
One list, with a flat pay-scale and flat benefits package, would make contracts more about performance and less about compensation. It eliminates the whipsaw that we are all currently witnessing. If the contracts were about performance rather than undercutting the bid, I think most pilots could get behind that.
You concern about the upgrade times is understandable, but one list would not put someone with a higher seniority number in front of you for upgrade. The seniority number (call it an experience number) is for pay and benefits. For example, let's say Nevets decides he's fed up with ExpressJet. He leaves for Compass. Nevets is an experienced Captain with 15 years of seniority (hypothetical). The pay-scale for a 15 year Captain at ExpressJet is $99 (APC). The pay-scale for a 15 year FO at Compass is $44. Nevets would be at the top of the FO pay-scale. His seniority number (experience) is for pay and benefits only. His date of hire at Compass would be his number for upgrade. He still took a massive pay cut but he's not forced to start at $25 and he keeps his benefits. This type of seniority system would even out the playing field between companies.
The current seniority system does nothing but encourage the ruthless tactics employed by our individual management groups.
Now cue all the naysayers
!I like your idea with one list though. Its a good starting point.
No, Nevets and I have had this discussion in the past. We are referring to a single list across the regional industry. He thinks the only way to do it is with a union, but as I pointed out before the current labor laws prohibits airline unions from taking this kind of action. It does not prohibit individuals petitioning congress.
12-23-2014 | 08:24 AM
#8305
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 622
Likes: 1
From: It's hot out here.
I did not say a single list was prohibited, I said you cannot use a union to get it.
12-23-2014 | 08:35 AM
#8306
MK Ultra Candidate
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
From: Prime Leader of Boko Harumph
Your crackpipe must be hot to the touch, a union is they only way you will ever get one. If you think that the industry will implement a single list you are too high. A single list insures that any one pilot will only spend one year on first year pay, unlike now where many get the opportunity to perfect first year pay 2-3 times.
Last edited by ClickClickBoom; 12-23-2014 at 09:14 AM. Reason: Spelling
12-23-2014 | 09:03 AM
#8307
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 622
Likes: 1
From: It's hot out here.
Your crackpipe must be hot to the touch, a union is they only way you will ever get one. If you think that the industry will implement a single list you are too high. A single list insures that any one pilot will only spend one year on first year pay, unlike now where many get the opportunity to perfect first year pay 2-3 times.
It is ridiculous that any pilot has to "start" over. That is the main issue. I think you agree with that. There are laws in place written over 90 years ago that govern an industry that didn't exist. They need to change. Back to my crackpipe.
And all of this matters not because Envoy just passed their TA. The crap continues.
12-23-2014 | 09:18 AM
#8308
MK Ultra Candidate
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
From: Prime Leader of Boko Harumph
Fixed it.
It is ridiculous that any pilot has to "start" over. That is the main issue. I think you agree with that. There are laws in place written over 90 years ago that govern an industry that didn't exist. They need to change. Back to my crackpipe.
And all of this matters not because Envoy just passed their TA. The crap continues.
It is ridiculous that any pilot has to "start" over. That is the main issue. I think you agree with that. There are laws in place written over 90 years ago that govern an industry that didn't exist. They need to change. Back to my crackpipe.
And all of this matters not because Envoy just passed their TA. The crap continues.
12-23-2014 | 09:34 AM
#8309
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 622
Likes: 1
From: It's hot out here.
Unbelievable! You and I agree. Merry Christmas my brother.
12-23-2014 | 10:24 AM
#8310
Banned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 0
From: EMB 145 CPT
Ok, I thought you were saying that it cannot happen with a union. But I do disagree that you cannot use a union to get it. The problem lies with pilots actually agreeing on it first. The only way to get 18,000 pilots to agree to it is to have their collective voices heard through their "legitimate" elected leadership. You can certainly have the union lobby (happens almost everyday that congress is in session) for this. Or you can try to negotiate it with management. Either way, its easier (if not the only way) with a union at all properties.
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