Originally Posted by Tranquility

Might want to do a little research before you post things on this forum as fact. American's pay parity clause went poof when they agreed to the jcba that they are currently working under. No compounding pay raises that you speak of, just 3% annually through 2019. You presume much in your post, lots of ifs blended in...

Originally Posted by Left Handed

OK guys, let's get some facts straight. If we don't agree with the company on a contract, usually after a year past the amendable date, then we can ask the government for a mediator. All the mediator does is prod the two sides along and see how they can compromise to get a deal done. The mediator has no control or power over either party, other than suggestion. If after a while, usually another year, the mediator feels that there is an impasse, or the two sides are pretty much set in their positions, the mediator will offer what's called a proffer of arbitration. That is he will offer both sides the chance for binding arbitration. Both sides have to say yes in order to do that. If either side says no, the binding arbitration is off the table, and either they go back to the mediator, or the mediator decides they're fairly close to an agreement and releases both parties into the 30 day cooling off period. After those 30 days, both sides are free to exercise self help. Which is anything up to and including a strike for us, and anything up to and including a lockout for the company. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here, that day is a long way off, if ever. I doubt the company would ever agree to binding arbitration, they would stand to lose a lot more through them then if they were to bargain with us.
Also with the whole time value of money thing, some people may think it's better to learn a lesser amount now than more later. I would rather earn an extra $40,000 a year for the rest of my career starting in two years, than an extra $20,000 a year for the rest of my career starting now. (I have 20 years left).

Originally Posted by Tranquility

Might want to do a little research before you post things on this forum as fact. American's pay parity clause went poof when they agreed to the jcba that they are currently working under. No compounding pay raises that you speak of, just 3% annually through 2019. You presume much in your post, lots of ifs blended in...

Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot

I'm not too honest enough to admit I got the AA parity clause wrong.

Point still stands that if united extension offer is anything close to what's been posted, and delta voting down raises, sw voting down raises (with scope givebacks so they got it right for sure), JetBlue in negotiations, and virgin opening, there is absolutely no reason to lock into today's middle of the pack. If we do we look like a bunch of coat tail riding freeloaders doing nothing to improve the profession today. And a year from now we will have the same or worse pay disparity as we have today only difference being we will have years left before we can even negotiate again.

Originally Posted by skybolt

With all due respect, your post is not entirely correct either. You say, "If talks fail it will go to a mediation. We will not retain our work rules,.....".

That is not a correct statement.

Mediation IS talks.

Plain and simple, mediation is nothing more than an NMB appointed mediator attempting to bring the parties together. The Mediator forces nothing, he/she essentially listens; listens for impasses, for breakdowns, for non-productive discussions and steps in to re-direct the discussion in a positive manner. At MOST, the mediator will offer a compromise when neither side can see the others position as being workable.

It is nothing more than your assumption that we "will not retain our work rules". Arbitration is NOT mandatory, and outside of arbitration, the only way we change our work rules is to ratify a TA that reduces them or for the Co to successfully use self help and unilaterally impose. Does ANYONE think Spirit will ask for self help?

I pretty much agree with the rest of your post.

But everyone needs to understand this: there IS NO shortcut to a great CBA.

Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot

I'm not too honest enough to admit I got the AA parity clause wrong.

Point still stands that if united extension offer is anything close to what's been posted, and delta voting down raises, sw voting down raises (with scope givebacks so they got it right for sure), JetBlue in negotiations, and virgin opening, there is absolutely no reason to lock into today's middle of the pack. If we do we look like a bunch of coat tail riding freeloaders doing nothing to improve the profession today. And a year from now we will have the same or worse pay disparity as we have today only difference being we will have years left before we can even negotiate again.

Originally Posted by RalphWiggum

My thought process which I should've qualified as "might" and not "will" come from the assumption that management wants 117 as our work rules. The longer it gets dragged out and the further away we get from being remotely close to standard in compensation greatly increases the likelihood we would see changes to work rules to offset needed raises. Which yes, would have to be agreed upon by the NC. There is no shortcut but it can be incredibly damaging to battle this out long term to everyone involved

Originally Posted by Dr Pepper

Sounds to me you were taking what "might happen" and trying to pass it off as "will happen" to promote your position of settling for a mediocre TA.

Our current work rules aren't good enough to justify substandard pay, retirement, and trip averaging.