Spirit of NKS, Part II
01-21-2016 | 10:41 PM
#2971
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
I don't but the negotiating committee does and straight from their mouths on the first conference call (read the transcript), there is no contract scenario that raised CASM above .06 (we are currently between .05 and .06). Are you telling me our NC didn't even run an industry leading contract scenario? People may not like them but they aren't that stupid I assure you.
What are these amazing work rules you speak of?
The amazing line purity, the low min duty period (NOT MIN DAY) average, the horrible trip rig, the low sick accrual, the 12 day off rsv lines, the red eye override, the eye turns that pay one duty period?
Oh you mean the transition conflict where if you work the first and last week of every month, bid lines you don't like, and are senior enough to get it every month you are might be lucky enough to get a 25% pay bump by working the system. Let me forego a 75-100% pay increase for that. Give me a break. So you like the time off from transition and don't care about the money? Go get a part time job if that's what you want. This is a career for most of us. Let me be clear, I'm not willing to change transition into what the company proposed by dropping just as they do now but not get pay protection. There are other solutions.
Oh you mean the 4 days off? You mean the one that has 6 day work blocks and no matter how senior you are you will probably have a line with different work days every week and have to work at least some weekends. Ask a southwest pilot how many days off they get in a row? Hint: 15-16 min days off per month usually gets you 4 days off or more in a row. If not there is a huge block of days off somewhere and guys will bid those lines of you don't.
Are these the amazing work rules you were referring to?
Yeah let me forgo a 75% raise, a 15-16% defined retirement contribution with no cap at $18k that also requires me to put in my own $18k to get, an ltd plan that protects the investment I made to get to this point in my career, and scope that prevents the airline from codesharing away any future growth.
Those are some real golden work rules
What are these amazing work rules you speak of?
The amazing line purity, the low min duty period (NOT MIN DAY) average, the horrible trip rig, the low sick accrual, the 12 day off rsv lines, the red eye override, the eye turns that pay one duty period?
Oh you mean the transition conflict where if you work the first and last week of every month, bid lines you don't like, and are senior enough to get it every month you are might be lucky enough to get a 25% pay bump by working the system. Let me forego a 75-100% pay increase for that. Give me a break. So you like the time off from transition and don't care about the money? Go get a part time job if that's what you want. This is a career for most of us. Let me be clear, I'm not willing to change transition into what the company proposed by dropping just as they do now but not get pay protection. There are other solutions.
Oh you mean the 4 days off? You mean the one that has 6 day work blocks and no matter how senior you are you will probably have a line with different work days every week and have to work at least some weekends. Ask a southwest pilot how many days off they get in a row? Hint: 15-16 min days off per month usually gets you 4 days off or more in a row. If not there is a huge block of days off somewhere and guys will bid those lines of you don't.
Are these the amazing work rules you were referring to?
Yeah let me forgo a 75% raise, a 15-16% defined retirement contribution with no cap at $18k that also requires me to put in my own $18k to get, an ltd plan that protects the investment I made to get to this point in my career, and scope that prevents the airline from codesharing away any future growth.
Those are some real golden work rules
01-21-2016 | 11:08 PM
#2972
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 283
Likes: 19
This...........this is what it's going to take.... I firmly believe as last time. Obviously it will take awhile before this will be able to take place, but gives us time to start saving! When they start losing millions, then they'll get serious. We just have to decide if we'll come back with or without retro!!
01-22-2016 | 03:38 AM
#2973
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Qotsaautopilot
Everything you post is Spot on!
Everything you post is Spot on!
01-22-2016 | 04:56 AM
#2974
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 429
Likes: 0
Qotsaautopilot
The only thing I disagree with you on is the 4 days off. I do agree with your statement about swa time off, however, this isn't swa. I'm not sure how long you've worked here, pre strike the company took the 4 days off away from us. We would work two days have a day off work one two off work 3 etc... It sucked. We work for a vindictive mgmt. Have for a long time. As a commuter, that sucked.
So my question to you, how do we phrase language in the contract to prevent that from happening? I'm not being a d!ck, just trying to have a discussion on how to maximize my time at home as a commuter.
The only thing I disagree with you on is the 4 days off. I do agree with your statement about swa time off, however, this isn't swa. I'm not sure how long you've worked here, pre strike the company took the 4 days off away from us. We would work two days have a day off work one two off work 3 etc... It sucked. We work for a vindictive mgmt. Have for a long time. As a commuter, that sucked.
So my question to you, how do we phrase language in the contract to prevent that from happening? I'm not being a d!ck, just trying to have a discussion on how to maximize my time at home as a commuter.
01-22-2016 | 05:09 AM
#2975
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Forget the 4-days off. It's SUPPOSED TO BE FIVE
FIVE
FIVE
FIVE
FIVE
FIVE
FIVE
FIVE
FIVE
FIVE
FIVE
FIVE
FIVE
FIVE
FIVE
FIVE
FIVE
01-22-2016 | 05:31 AM
#2977
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,499
Likes: 0
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01-22-2016 | 06:29 AM
#2978
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Likes: 0
Qotsaautopilot
The only thing I disagree with you on is the 4 days off. I do agree with your statement about swa time off, however, this isn't swa. I'm not sure how long you've worked here, pre strike the company took the 4 days off away from us. We would work two days have a day off work one two off work 3 etc... It sucked. We work for a vindictive mgmt. Have for a long time. As a commuter, that sucked.
So my question to you, how do we phrase language in the contract to prevent that from happening? I'm not being a d!ck, just trying to have a discussion on how to maximize my time at home as a commuter.
The only thing I disagree with you on is the 4 days off. I do agree with your statement about swa time off, however, this isn't swa. I'm not sure how long you've worked here, pre strike the company took the 4 days off away from us. We would work two days have a day off work one two off work 3 etc... It sucked. We work for a vindictive mgmt. Have for a long time. As a commuter, that sucked.
So my question to you, how do we phrase language in the contract to prevent that from happening? I'm not being a d!ck, just trying to have a discussion on how to maximize my time at home as a commuter.
What you saw was a five day off elimination with no other changes. Having a min 15-16 day off requirement and no work blocks longer than 4 days and a min 2 days off will eliminate many of the issues you saw and also solve the problems with the required 5 days off that I mentioned. Yes there will be some lines that are 4 on 2 off for a couple weeks but guys will bid them for the large day off blocks created by the min 15-16 days off in the month.
Of course you don't just hand over 5 days off for a little cash and nothing else. That is just stupid but to say there is no other solution than just having four days off is a bit close minded.
I will say the one premium work rule that just can't be changed in any way or be sold is the red/green. That is a serious qol enhancer. I'm not even sure though that it is industry leading which means it's not something you take a pay hit for to leave alone.
01-22-2016 | 06:35 AM
#2979
Gets Off to Weekends
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 649
Likes: 0
From: A320 FO
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01-22-2016 | 06:47 AM
#2980
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 156
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Yes, the company can afford to pay all of us better than average and improve our work rules. If you think that is going to happen, you need to step away from the crack pipe. That takes leverage. Of which we have zero. Leverage takes unity. Of which we have zero. High attrition, a few pilots not interviewing or helping out in OCC will not force them to do anything. Unless a great majority starts doing ONLY their job, nothing will change. That is a very slippery slope. Ask AA about following the FARs concerning mx writeups. You can't change the statue quo during section 6. If a majority has been doing something, like using personal cell phones for company business, it is considered past precedence and must continue. Oh, then let's strike! How long are you willing to negotiate? 6 years, maybe 8? The company has all the time in the world. Right now, we are a known cheap cost. As long as "good faith negotiations and progress" are occurring, we WILL NOT be released. If Allegiant can't get released, then neither will we. All the company needs to do is hold on until the economy takes a down turn and it will. Sure, we can demand all that we want at the table, but then the NMB puts us "on ice." The mediator can and will walk away. Then what?
I don't have the answer to any of this. I want to be paid what we deserve and not a penny less without losing quality of life. I want better retirement, ltd and many other items, just not sure how it's gonna happen. Just stomping my foot and saying that we should get it cause the other guy has it or we will strike isn't going to work. Lastly, where are you guys based that always work 6 days in a row? I do that maybe once a month.
I don't have the answer to any of this. I want to be paid what we deserve and not a penny less without losing quality of life. I want better retirement, ltd and many other items, just not sure how it's gonna happen. Just stomping my foot and saying that we should get it cause the other guy has it or we will strike isn't going to work. Lastly, where are you guys based that always work 6 days in a row? I do that maybe once a month.
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