100% agree. But...

In practice, notification of short call wouldn't be any later than 18 hours prior, or 12-hours before the start of LC (10-18 hour rule) right? So at notification (self or actual), invoke 2-hour NC (as is the requirement in the PWA/SRH). This should cover 99% of scenarios, because anything else and they could outright remove the SC and assign a rotation >18 hours out.

One outlier being for SC assigned days in advance. Still, when you make the call to self-notify/ack and invoke 2-hour NC, they could instead have a LC assignment waiting for you and the SC disappears.

Another outlier being SC is assigned 11AM the day prior, and you call at 2000 to invoke 2-hour NC. I believe this still counts as self-notification (allowing 2-hour NC to be valid. You were not contactable yet), but a rotation assignment may be present at that point. This gets into splitting hairs as Fangs mentioned. But as Cencal said, something to be aware of.

 

Yes the ambiguity largely depends on whether you’re contactable when the short call is assigned. As verdell alludes to below. I’d say, if you’re contactable, you better invoke your 2 hr NC pretty darn quick. But since ascertain is so nebulous, if you didn’t immediately tell them when stuff is assigned / awarded at 1100, or even around 12 prior to end of non-fly day, they should honor it whether it’s done at those times or hours later.

It can be a race against the clock… but you lose no matter what if they’ve assigned a short call rotation prior to you attempting to invoke NC.


Definitely don’t want to be seen as a nitpicker with this but you may be mixing up some rules.

will address:

In practice, notification of short call wouldn't be any later than 18 hours prior, or 12-hours before the start of LC (10-18 hour rule) right?

While in LC status (ie contactable), yes, soonest you can get ANYTHING is 18 hours from the current time.

On a non-fly day (not a contactable status) the company does not need to notify you for rotations/short call reporting/starting between 10-18 hours after LC start. If it’s for after that, they need to contact you while in a contactable status (see above).

As previously stated, there is no requirement to acknowledge anything except when you are currently on short call and receive a rotation assignment during that short call.


So at notification, invoke 2-hour NC (as is the requirement in the PWA/SRH). This should cover 99% of scenarios, because anything else and they could outright remove the SC and assign a rotation >18 hours out.

Even if you invoke 2 hour NC, there is no PWA requirement for that SC (or even rotation assignments) to remain on your schedule. You are released 18 hours prior from your long call duty, so if they remove if they’ve shot themselves in the foot since you’re unavailable until whatever time your SC was supposed to start. You couldn’t be assigned anything until 18 hours after that since the SC is removed and your default is LC.

 

PWA says that rest on your schedule during the post RES rotation schedule check must be acknowledge.

I agree that nothing else has to be acknowledged.

 

My apologies. I will point out that the specific statement I was responding to was not discussing that the rest was placed on a schedule such that it was known when a pilot was in their required pre-release schedule check:

”+1. The only thing I'll add is to be careful not to unintentionally acknowledge a 30 hour rest with a combined CNO call (legally) converting you from LC to SC. A couple anecdotal reports of a 'dual use'' CNO attempt.l”

It was a response specifically to the scenario of being on long call status and getting a CNO for short call.

You are correct though. There are two times at Delta you need to acknowledge:

1) rest assigned prior to release from a rotation (23.S.5.f.1.)
2) rotations assigned while on short call IN the short call window (old CA bulletin)

That’s it. Period dot.

 

2 points:

1) I like this discussion

2) cencal knows this stuff.

 

Just to reiterate CNO calls and texts do not have to be acknowledged and can be ignored except for converting LC to SC. A CNO call and voicemail or text is not notification and there is no need to call scheduling to verify, or preempt a no show, or ask for it to be removed because it wasn't done by a scheduler. This is a situation of their own making and will have to deal with the consequences when nobody shows for the report. This has been happening to several people I know on LC RES.

 

Not trying to sound argumentative....I love to have the source documents to share with my fellow pilots and quote them to scheds when I'm arguing my points.

I believe you are referring to Contract Awareness (CA) 17-04 (16 June 2017) titled "Short Call Questions Answered"

I know the Sched Alerts (SA's) and the SRH are reviewed by the company so therefore they carry the same weight as the PWA....but I've never heard of CA bulletins carrying the same weight. So are CA's company reviewed as well and thus carry same weight as the PWA and SRH and CA's?

CA 17-04 states:

"In addressing the questions regarding assignment responsibilities, two important obligations must be considered.• A short call pilot must be promptly available for contact during his short call period. This means that the pilot must be able to answer or promptly return a phone call or acknowledge an assignment via electronic means"

So is there anywhere in the PWA or SRH that is the foundation for that bolded part? Of is the CA the only place it mentions having to acknowledge a SC flying assignment?

I did find this in the SRH on page 109, Question 8 under the FAQ about Reserves section:

"Q8. What if I am assigned short call?

A. Upon notification of short call, you may advise Crew Scheduling that you will be unavailable for contact during the first two hours of your short call period. Should you exercise this option, you must then check your schedule within that two-hour period and acknowledge any rotation that has been placed on your line. Such rotation may require a report as early as two hours after the start of your short call period."

So this appears to apply only to flying assignment during the 2 hour non-contact window, not necessarily the entire SC window.

As I was searching the SRH to try to find an answer myself, I falso ound this on page 5 "When have you been contacted, a Regular pilot" 5th sub-bullet:

"who is awarded flying as a result of an automated PCS run, a Pilot-to-Pilot Swap Board request or a Swap with Friends request must acknowledge the award and is obligated to fly the rotation; they will not be contacted to inform them of the award."

Since this is in the SRH, I would say this is a 3rd instance of must acknowledge

Again, not trying to be argumentative....really trying to learn the nuances and have the source documents to be able to back it up when dealing with Scheds or CPO.

Thanks for your time!

 

Why can't the two-hour NC be automated? It's frustrating that we have to call to get this added, especially during an IROP when it takes 30 to 40 minutes to reach someone.

 

If I can't get through in a few minutes I send a crew assist message saying I'm NC and that I was not able to get through to scheduling. I haven't had an issue yet but if you don't say you attempted contact you will get a call scheduling reply.

 

Regarding this part, I believe it's covered on page 5 of the SRH:

"A pilot has not been contacted concerning their schedule unless they have spoken personally with a Company representative, and/or has acknowledged a message via telephone, IVR, iCrew, ARCOS, or the Crew Auto Notification System (CNO)."

So if you are "promptly available for contact", you can satisfy that contact by "promptly" using any of those means.