If it helps, I got the same thing out of the thread.

I did as well.

OK ... where? .

All MEC meetings with RA are closed.

OK... Almost everywhere.

At the risk of dipping my toe in a brewing mil vs RJ debate, I took Bar's comment as nothing more than a continuation of his long-standing belief that ALPA should seek to bring all flying back to the majors and get rid of the outsourcing model. I did not take it as a slam towards mil guys. Clearly the Navy guy in question has a few excellent bullet points on his résumé. I don't think that's relevant to where Bar was trying to go.

My concern with his logic is the slippery slope of an RJ-guy land grab. I'm all for them coming over AT THE BOTTOM of the list like the rest of us had to do.

Bar, how would you feel about a DCI/Mainline integration where guys of your former seniority at ASA ended up in front of you, or even ended up with better non rev seniority?

You took a leap to come to Delta. IMO everyone else should have to do the same thing.

Thank you for reading and understanding.

To your question:

It has long been my opinion that by paycheck and equipment, status quo is a staple.

I agree that anything else is pragmatically and politically a "deal killer."

Without a deal, then the choice is just as you suggest; apply and get hired.

There is no sim evaluation during the DAL interview. It is assumed you are qualified based on the minimum requirements. The interview process is to determine if you will fit in, and be a good employee, since it's hard to get rid of union workers. If they could have the regionals flying the bigger airplanes, they would, and if they could fire you at will, the process would be nowhere near as selective.

The point of a union is to monopolize ALL labor at a company, not bargain for top rates for a select few. Scope relief is a denial of union representation to a certain subset of a labor group for pay increases for another. I'm not talking about regional pilots, I'm talking about guys like CGfalcon who were furloughed for years.

Bar/Leine:

That's fair. And to Leine's question, I don't think Bar is slamming military guys.

What I took exception to, which is really one of the very few things I ever disagree with Bar on, is that he seems to confer special status to DCI pilots, as Delta guys, except in name.

He wrote:

These guys haven't "already been working for Delta", in any sense of the term. They're part of an elaborate, ironclad structure that's specifically designed to make sure they are NOT working for Delta.

The existence of this structure is the problem. It's pretty much ironclad, precisely because we gave the company language to secure it as an exception. Delta executives don't go to sleep thinking that the separate status of DCI could be challenged, in any way. They might worry about staffing it, but they know it is what it is: permitted flying.

Where Bar invariably goes wrong is that he cannot help but get into tangents about the nature of the structure, where he all needs to do to find common ground (inside and outside Delta): we need to get rid of this structure. Not get into debates about whether a DCI guy is more a Delta guy than a military guy, or a SkyWest guy, or an Eagle guy.

There are Delta pilots, and pilots that aren't on the list, period.

We need the flying to be performed by guys on the list. The bigger the list, the more flying... the better. EOS.

At the interview, AK explained the rationale for no sim check is that it is biased toward people that have flown a similar (or the same) aircraft as the sim. He explained that Delta chose the Cog Testing to evaluate the multi-tasking/coordination skills that a pilot needs, on a more level playing field.

I agree the interview is a good-fit/good-employee check, but there is a stick-and-rudder component. Granted, it's a balance-a-block-on-a-triangle-while-evaluating-similar-letter/number-pairs-that-are-about-to-disappear component, but the skills being evaluated are conceptually the same.