Sorry but that's a load of BS as well. The "full" number is prorated based on the number of days off and the adjustment is far from 1 for 1 credit. That's about as valid as saying that vacation is 7 extra days off in a reserve month. Acting as though it is easier to reach "full" status in a vacation month is not reality. It's the same and on avg it's now harder to fill up. I sat 5 years of reserve. Pretty much equal amounts under both systems. While pay is better under the new system (good thing obviously), filling up was much easier under the old system. Furthermore, the pilot was left with the choice of whether or not he/she wanted to fly over the full number. Anytime we take QOL options away from pilots it never ends well for us.

You say "it was easier to fill up"...even in a vacation month? I would disagree with that. Yes it is not a 1-for-1 substitution, but under the pre C2012 contract vacation did not apply against your reserve obligation at all!

You could have had two weeks of vacation before C2012 and still owed the company up to the ALV worth of flying. That can't happen now. While I was not thrilled with giving the company the ability to assign a reserve pilot up to ALV+15 the number of those instances I am guessing is a whole lot less than the number of reserves in vacation months who are now flying less than they would have in the old system.

There are very few ways one could fly a full month of ALV with a 2 week vacation. ALV+15 was a major turd that DALPA kept attempting (and apparently is still attempting) to polish.

You are making my point (I think). The old system sucked far more for reserves who were in a vacation month than the current system does.

Under the old system reserves in vacation months frequently flew more than they do now. After all if a guy had vacation 1-15th, on the 16th his accumulated credit was zero and he could be flown every day the rest of the month without hitting a limit. Now that wouldn't happen,as he would have his own unique reserve guarantee.

Yes sometime guys in non vacation months fly more than they would have before but I would guess that is less than the other example. Further, how about some acknowledgement after decades of trying, we finally got reserves the same pay guarantee as regular pilots. Now each trip pays more (in some instances significantly more), getting reserves up to full far quicker than before.

So if a guy was on vacation 2 weeks in a month, how many days do you think he was on reserve and able to be assigned flying?

As for your last paragraph, you're introducing an entirely new topic to the debate. But since you bring it up, rsve trip guarantee matching reg guarantee was only the right thing to do. Otherwise you're treating the junior end of the seniority list like second class citizens - and you wouldn't advocate that now, would you?

Hardly a gain. Last March they took me involuntarily to 89.5 hrs in a reserve month. That never happened to me before FU2012.

If you want to talk vacation, reserves should credit 22:45 against ALV. NOPE! But you want to talk about how great C2012 is? Yeah the new system adjusts the full amount but so does RSV vacation. RSV pilots don't credit 22:45 against their guarantee. It gets prorated. What a deal!! You act as though the new system subtracts 22:45 from a reserve's full amount and then they are done. HARDLY the truth. That's the crap that confuses the guys you fly with. The new rolling reserve guarantee is a moving target that is essentially unattainable. Nice try. You obviously haven't lived it.

Are we really arguing that the current contract benefits reserves because they are better off in a vacation month? Most FO reserves have what 2 maybe 3 weeks of vacation per year if they are lucky? Great perspective Herk.

So it's worth selling out for the 2-3 moths you get to bid vacation? Wow, I had no idea we as a pilot group were quite so ignorant.

A couple of points.
A reserve is now full with 2 hours less time.
Reserves in many months get a additional day off.
It's not just vacation that counts toward being full but any known absences including mil leave and training.
Amazingly Captains are also on reserve.
Regular line holders now often bid down to reserve in vacation months allowing pilots on reserve normally to get a regular line.
The very biggest change however is reserves getting the 5:15 daily min. That fills a reserve up far faster. No more 7 hour two day trips!

You're both right. Bidding reserve in a vacation month often pays more than bidding a line. Also, with 117, to get greenslips, one often has to bid reserve to clear out the 100 in 672 look back.

There's no disputing reserve is better than when I got hired. But, commuting to reserve still is not Bueno.

I agree 100% - Reserve is much better now, although I think some guys may still dispute this. Yes, the potential to fly to ALV+15 when 1 minute below being full sucks, but as I have been saying since C2012 this issue is way overblown.

The potential for this obviously varies by base and seat - for example I have never ever reached the reserve guarantee when flying reserve - but I don't really try to fill -up.

One of our biggest, if not the biggest, concession of C2012 was switching to 30 day summer months - this dwarfs the potential ALV+15 issue in my opinion.

Scoop