Details on Delta TA
05-22-2015 | 10:54 AM
#4621
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,142
Likes: 5
Well, I see having the trip off with pay and not having to work with LCA flying as an easter egg in the contract that benefits a few, but not everyone. And yes, I've enjoyed a few of them and would probably in the future.
Not the same as the B scale because that was splitting the group into haves and have nots.
If recovery flying was reinstated, what would happen is that LCA trips would go junior again. Sometimes a junior FO would get a relatively senior trip because he wasn't able to "avoid LCAs". He/she may fly with the LCA or may get bought off and be subject to some sort of reserve commitment for the same time period which we all know means they are getting used.
My only point is that this particular easter egg, no matter how hard fought for, provides for the most identifiable inefficiency that the company could try and negotiate out of the contract again for the next decade.
That has a price, I think that Hockey said 2% across the board pay raise is not enough, but I suppose there is a number that a majority of the pilots would think is fair compensation for removing the easter egg.
I don't agree that comparing this to a B scale is accurate. That would be like saying that A319 pilots should make more than M90 pilots despite the fact that the M90 holds more revenue and commands more attention from it's pilots, that would be divisive!
Not the same as the B scale because that was splitting the group into haves and have nots.
If recovery flying was reinstated, what would happen is that LCA trips would go junior again. Sometimes a junior FO would get a relatively senior trip because he wasn't able to "avoid LCAs". He/she may fly with the LCA or may get bought off and be subject to some sort of reserve commitment for the same time period which we all know means they are getting used.
My only point is that this particular easter egg, no matter how hard fought for, provides for the most identifiable inefficiency that the company could try and negotiate out of the contract again for the next decade.
That has a price, I think that Hockey said 2% across the board pay raise is not enough, but I suppose there is a number that a majority of the pilots would think is fair compensation for removing the easter egg.
I don't agree that comparing this to a B scale is accurate. That would be like saying that A319 pilots should make more than M90 pilots despite the fact that the M90 holds more revenue and commands more attention from it's pilots, that would be divisive!
05-22-2015 | 11:07 AM
#4622
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,562
Likes: 106
From: Road construction signholder
Wrong...It effects a very large number of first officers over time..As guys move on and upgrade it opens up bidding with LCA to more junior FO's. Not to mention the junior guys who have LCA swap into their trip..You sound like someone from ALPA trying to justify this concession. And it is a HUGE concession.
Conversely, try to convince a mid level 88 FO who was furloughed for 5 years how important it is to get even more vacation weeks for the senior widebody captains with 25+ years seniority!
Somewhere between all that they still have to negotiate a TA that will pass MEC muster and THEN the membership.
I don't envy the job.
05-22-2015 | 11:17 AM
#4623
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,599
Likes: 2
Wrong...It effects a very large number of first officers over time..As guys move on and upgrade it opens up bidding with LCA to more junior FO's. Not to mention the junior guys who have LCA swap into their trip..You sound like someone from ALPA trying to justify this concession. And it is a HUGE concession.
I'm at 60% in category on a narrowbody and have been playing the LCA game since we got no recovery obligations a few years ago. It's been worth about an extra 25 hours of pay per month for me. I'll be a no voter if we lose the LCA deal.
05-22-2015 | 11:30 AM
#4624
Straight QOL, homie
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,202
Likes: 1
From: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
My rep confirms the sales job strategy is being mapped out by the MEC.
It will precede the TA's release, with a repetitive "catchphrase" (think: Time Value of Money) bombarding us early and often to wear us down and distract us from all the concessions. Exactly like C12.
He said a TA may already have been reached, (possibly explaining the crying fit by the NC member), and holdout reps are being softened up to try to milk a more favorable final tally to improve the optics (currently 11-8).
Everything the survey said not to touch...is on the chopping block. Pay has not been discussed at the MEC level. Pushing for 50%+1 from the pilot group, and not one vote more.
Apparently Harwood was berating a new rep, yelling and using multiple F-bombs, to pressure him to get on board.
BOHICA.
It will precede the TA's release, with a repetitive "catchphrase" (think: Time Value of Money) bombarding us early and often to wear us down and distract us from all the concessions. Exactly like C12.
He said a TA may already have been reached, (possibly explaining the crying fit by the NC member), and holdout reps are being softened up to try to milk a more favorable final tally to improve the optics (currently 11-8).
Everything the survey said not to touch...is on the chopping block. Pay has not been discussed at the MEC level. Pushing for 50%+1 from the pilot group, and not one vote more.
Apparently Harwood was berating a new rep, yelling and using multiple F-bombs, to pressure him to get on board.
BOHICA.
Last edited by Purple Drank; 05-22-2015 at 11:49 AM.
05-22-2015 | 11:32 AM
#4625
Straight QOL, homie
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,202
Likes: 1
From: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Whatever the number, it's sure to rise with all the training and hiring.
Last edited by Purple Drank; 05-22-2015 at 11:44 AM.
05-22-2015 | 11:37 AM
#4626
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,688
Likes: 66
How and why does Harwood have so much influence and power?
My rep confirms the sales job strategy is being mapped out by the MEC.
It will precede the TA's release, with a repetitive "catchphrase" (think: Time Value of Money) bombarding us early and often to wear us down and distract us from all the concessions. Exactly like C12.
He said a TA may already have been reached, (possibly explaining the crying fit by the NC member), and holdout reps are being softened up to try to milk a more favorable final tally (currently 11-8). Everything the survey said not to touch...has been touched. 76 seaters, sick leave, profit sharing, LCA trips, and more. Pay has not been discussed at the MEC level. Pushing for 50%+1 from the pilot group, and not one vote more.
Apparently Harwood was berating a new rep, yelling and using multiple F-bombs, to pressure him to get on board.
BOHICA.
It will precede the TA's release, with a repetitive "catchphrase" (think: Time Value of Money) bombarding us early and often to wear us down and distract us from all the concessions. Exactly like C12.
He said a TA may already have been reached, (possibly explaining the crying fit by the NC member), and holdout reps are being softened up to try to milk a more favorable final tally (currently 11-8). Everything the survey said not to touch...has been touched. 76 seaters, sick leave, profit sharing, LCA trips, and more. Pay has not been discussed at the MEC level. Pushing for 50%+1 from the pilot group, and not one vote more.
Apparently Harwood was berating a new rep, yelling and using multiple F-bombs, to pressure him to get on board.
BOHICA.
Last edited by Scoop; 05-22-2015 at 12:00 PM. Reason: TOS
05-22-2015 | 11:59 AM
#4627
Banned
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,655
Likes: 0
From: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
I love this story.
Sell us your thoughts on including the AF/KLM grievance into C2015! How much do we get for that? I'm going to go buy a yacht.
The sad fact is these concessions are all self funding.
If Delta makes $500 trillion dollars a day do we still have to make concessions? Or whatever your calling them to make it hurt less.
Sell us your thoughts on including the AF/KLM grievance into C2015! How much do we get for that? I'm going to go buy a yacht.
The sad fact is these concessions are all self funding.
If Delta makes $500 trillion dollars a day do we still have to make concessions? Or whatever your calling them to make it hurt less.
Like said before, I don't envy the negotiators cause we all know that even a 50% pay raise will elicit someone to say "we can get more".
Also I agree with the previous poster that time is on our side. A huge PS payment is brewing, mgmt cannot hire and train fast enough to staff what they want, let alone grow in any major way.
I want as much pay for as little work for the whole list, top to bottom that is possibly achievable.
05-22-2015 | 12:01 PM
#4628
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,142
Likes: 5
This is the problem with being a negotiator. You can't please all the constituents at once. Try convincing a 777A how "important" it is that a senior (and occasionally junior) FO should routinely expect to stay home and get paid for not working. Hint, you won't get far.
Conversely, try to convince a mid level 88 FO who was furloughed for 5 years how important it is to get even more vacation weeks for the senior widebody captains with 25+ years seniority!
Somewhere between all that they still have to negotiate a TA that will pass MEC muster and THEN the membership.
I don't envy the job.
Conversely, try to convince a mid level 88 FO who was furloughed for 5 years how important it is to get even more vacation weeks for the senior widebody captains with 25+ years seniority!
Somewhere between all that they still have to negotiate a TA that will pass MEC muster and THEN the membership.
I don't envy the job.
05-22-2015 | 12:13 PM
#4630
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,044
Likes: 3
From: Lowest Pay I Could Find
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