Originally Posted by tsquare

OK.. define "FAR". You like to talk in these grandiose terms about how far down our purchasing power is, and that it is uber important to get that back... and to a degree I agree. Your arguments seem so focused on that... and only that.... that sometimes I have a hard time believing that you truly believe negotiations can and will take place. We have been... again... around this maypole a hundred times, and it will result in you flaming me as accepting a reset and all that garbage... but how much are you willing to accept less than total restoration? It's rhetorical, and you know exactly why. The answer is "it depends". The problem is that it is apparent that you do not trust the negotiators to get the best deal they can. I don't know how to reconcile that, because even seeing the survey is not a panacea. All that will do is give DPA clowns more ammo. Anybody can create a crisis based on a single piece of information. The whole picture is important, and you know it. No matter how transparent the MEC or negotiators are, you will never be able to see the whole picture. And you know that also. I trust Heiko. He's both younger and junior to me, so I KNOW he will live with the results of his work. I'm good with it.

Originally Posted by tsquare

That speaks volumes, and it clears up all the questions about your motivation that I had in the previous post, which will be deleted if I get there before it is quoted.

Good luck in your quest. Be sure to sign your card, and let us all know when the vote will be.

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

Already answered. You just don't like the answer and want to spin it in an attempt to make me out to be some kind of extremist.

You're right about one thing, though. I don't trust the negotiators to get the best deal they can. Not when they don't have an objective that even remotely resembles restoration and are therefore not even opening with something in the ball park. Our company is making billions. Pilot costs are relatively small in the grand scheme of things. It's not that I think our negotiators are dishonest. I just think their objective is something far short of mine and their mindset is in line with bankruptcy as a reset. That is not going to result in anything like what I think is appropriate or what I will accept. Herman Cain (radio host, former presidential candidate, and highly successful businessman) often talks about "working on the right problem." If our negotiating committee is not working on restoration then they are NOT working on the right problem.

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

That says nothing about DPA. Again, more spin from you trying to turn it into something it's not. Get off my lawn!

Originally Posted by tsquare

The "right" problem is a moving target. For you and me it's money. For the newhires it's bottom end scope. For the old guys it's retirement. Why is your desire any more important than anybody else's? I don't want to pay for bottom end scope. That doesn't make it unimportant to somebody else.

Originally Posted by tsquare

And bankruptcy was a reset. There. I said it. Move on. It was sad, it was wrong, but it is a fact. Life's too short to fret and whine about it. There is nowhere to go but up, and I am good with singles and doubles and not home runs. You can only hit what's pitched. And I can't cry about a relief pitcher that throws a really good curve. I have to learn to hit the curve better. And I am.

Can't wait to read your retort to this.... although I am sure I can write it for you and pretty much hit all your talking points.

Originally Posted by tsquare

You gonna tear up your allegiance to them then and get on the winning team?

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

I have a current card. I may or may not renew it. Honestly, I don't think they're going to ever get that vote and I'm not too impressed with them anyway.

I wish I had a "winning team" to get on! Unfortunately, the only choice I have is a losing team who gave up because they faced a really bad situation and then didn't have the resolve or commitment or respect for our profession to fight for restoration after the bad situation was over. They think exactly like you just admitted in your other post. This should be the official symbol of DALPA:

Originally Posted by Splash

Fair enough…as long as you acknowledge that many No voters did so to repudiate Lee Moak's strategies and achievements, and that they're in the clear minority of our pilot group.

Originally Posted by Splash

This thread is about C2015, and to date, ALPA seems to be following a very methodical process to educate us on the history of our contract, and our place within the industry landscape.

Originally Posted by Splash

Personally, I believe bankruptcy DID represent a "reset", if not of wage rates, than of our shifting of priorities.

Originally Posted by Splash

They also tended to be at companies that had used an incremental strategy to grow and develop their networks.

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

Ever heard of ethics, Shiz? Common sense? You know how in aviation sometimes just because it's legal doesn't necessarily mean it's safe? Well, sometimes in life just because it's legal doesn't necessarily mean it's smart or the right thing to do.


Yeah, well I don't trust my reps. I especially don't trust their judgement. I didn't vote for any of them.