Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor?
11-14-2016, 11:03 AM
#8211
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
Originally Posted by Apokleros
Well, Delta likes to hire line check airmen and sim instructors, and those guys are unfortunately not in short supply right now. Why on earth should they hire a run-of-the-mill line pilot with the same conventional background as 2000 other FOs/CAs also vying for a single spot to work there? And moreover, they don't want to drain their regional feed as mentioned above.
Mil hiring is around half and declining. The rest is civ, and with 1300+ a year (and all the other airlines doing the same) there is no way that current or future new hires will (or ever have been) mostly Chief Line Check Airmen Sim Instructor Door Gunners.
DL and all the others hire PLENTY of "run of the mill" line pilots. Like by the thousands.
11-14-2016, 11:04 AM
#8212
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: FIRE ALPA
Posts: 3,082
Originally Posted by gloopy
Some fighter pilot squadron commanders get passed up too. No group has a 100% success rate, and every group has a few who didn't get hired who probably should have gotten hired. And that includes those who prepared well.
But its no secret that many of the SSP candidates (at least initially) walked in (ridiculously) thinking it was just a good old boy, buddy roe, "grin and grip" and that's just asinine.
Again, I never said that if you prepare well, you will have a 100% chance of getting the job. That's never the case. But if the average is around 2/3, and we know there are some who don't take it seriously and some who have attitudes, its safe to say that if you do take it seriously and don't have an attitude, your odds will be above the average.
As for the draining of pilots issue, there's two sides to that coin. On the one hand they need to provide an incentive to get pilots to go and stay there (for a while at least) and on the other hand they, like you said, can't just gut the operation instantly into oblivion. Also though, they want good pilots and good people to work with from all sources.
I'm all for a viable path from EDV to DAL, but its never going to be 100%. And no one is ever going to be "shafted" or whatever because they weren't hired by DL or anywhere else.
While no one knows what the future of this segment of the industry will hold, I think its safe to say there likely won't ever be a pure 100% flow at DL. But when you start out with a 2/3 success rate, and can increase those odds by preparing hard and having a good attitude, that's pretty darn good IMO.
But its no secret that many of the SSP candidates (at least initially) walked in (ridiculously) thinking it was just a good old boy, buddy roe, "grin and grip" and that's just asinine.
Again, I never said that if you prepare well, you will have a 100% chance of getting the job. That's never the case. But if the average is around 2/3, and we know there are some who don't take it seriously and some who have attitudes, its safe to say that if you do take it seriously and don't have an attitude, your odds will be above the average.
As for the draining of pilots issue, there's two sides to that coin. On the one hand they need to provide an incentive to get pilots to go and stay there (for a while at least) and on the other hand they, like you said, can't just gut the operation instantly into oblivion. Also though, they want good pilots and good people to work with from all sources.
I'm all for a viable path from EDV to DAL, but its never going to be 100%. And no one is ever going to be "shafted" or whatever because they weren't hired by DL or anywhere else.
While no one knows what the future of this segment of the industry will hold, I think its safe to say there likely won't ever be a pure 100% flow at DL. But when you start out with a 2/3 success rate, and can increase those odds by preparing hard and having a good attitude, that's pretty darn good IMO.
11-14-2016, 11:09 AM
#8213
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by Avroman
Not really since that's exactly what was sold to the pilot group during the bankruptcy. It was take these extreme cuts but when your number comes up, if you want a job at Delta it's yours, just show up and fill out the paperwork. When questioned by guys like me at the road shows, we were assured that this is what Delta wanted for us, and specific hiring minimum numbers in writing weren't needed. Yes, that was as much if not more a failure of ALPA (and karma got the then MEC chair for it) So perhaps you can understand why the first several groups showed up expecting a handshake and a class date. Even our managers had no idea until word of mouth started getting around that we'd been sold an even bigger lemon contract.
11-14-2016, 11:14 AM
#8214
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
Originally Posted by Avroman
Not really since that's exactly what was sold to the pilot group during the bankruptcy.
Or, you could just walk in and think you've got it, because hey, someone said you probably just got it.
It was take these extreme cuts but when your number comes up, if you want a job at Delta it's yours, just show up and fill out the paperwork.
It seriously never occurred to anyone that, since it was not a flow, and was not a guaranteed in writing job, that maybe they were actually taking a look at you?
When questioned by guys like me at the road shows, we were assured that this is what Delta wanted for us, and specific hiring minimum numbers in writing weren't needed.
And again, so you could save what exactly? A few weeks of preparing?
Yes, that was as much if not more a failure of ALPA (and karma got the then MEC chair for it) So perhaps you can understand why the first several groups showed up expecting a handshake and a class date. Even our managers had no idea until word of mouth started getting around that we'd been sold an even bigger lemon contract.
11-14-2016, 01:38 PM
#8218
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 692
One point on the previous reference to the regionals being akin to minor-league baseball. In the minors the standards of performance are much lower than the major leagues. However in the regional airlines the expectations are the same as mainline. You operate at the same standard of performance out of the same airports they do and are held to the same standards on checkrides. Many regional guys and ladies don't like to hear this but the only difference between both sides of the industry is you are doing it for C scale rates. Most people defend the stepping stone system that is in place only until they are rejected by mainline then realizing that the entire thing is basically a scam.
11-14-2016, 01:58 PM
#8219
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 438
Originally Posted by sflpilot
One point on the previous reference to the regionals being akin to minor-league baseball. In the minors the standards of performance are much lower than the major leagues. However in the regional airlines the expectations are the same as mainline. You operate at the same standard of performance out of the same airports they do and are held to the same standards on checkrides. Many regional guys and ladies don't like to hear this but the only difference between both sides of the industry is you are doing it for C scale rates. Most people defend the stepping stone system that is in place only until they are rejected by mainline then realizing that the entire thing is basically a scam.
11-14-2016, 02:27 PM
#8220
Property of Scheduling
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus driver
Posts: 2,525
Regardless of where you come from, the standard still remains. If I won't let my friends and close family ride in back, you don't get a signoff. That issue still seems to remain at regionals, and not majors, but for 121, it is the starting point to even get a checkride in the right seat. Sorry if that ruffles feathers, but that's the standard. Fly SOP and make the appropriate decisions with some common sense and all is well.
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