Oh Eaglefly.....your hate for all things Eagle-voy, is strong. The 250 went prior to 2013 by the way homie

The Cuuj means well. We all got spit in the face by this flow hiccup, but he is right, we have sent a lot more pilots than so far called for.

I still see a lot of PSA guys running in here and bashing envoy every chance they can. Very unbecoming.

 

Bashing envoy??? Who from PSA does that. Besides first class.


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I agree with this statement. I've been a pretty big supporter of the future of envoy and I do still think it will get much better once we are right-sized. Coming here right now, however, will not lead to the quick movement promised by the 2.5 yr upgrade/6 yr flow from our upper-management. They had a pretty damn good opportunity to change things, but yes, they did squander it. As most everyone on here knows, the airline industry is very fluid so we'll see what the future holds.

 

Yup, 5 (large) bases closed since I started. Many people moved and bought homes, more than once for. This place use to be the largest regional and pretty stable with over 3200 pilots.

Boston
LA
San Juan
Miami
NYC (Laguardia & JFK)

 

[QUOTE=sublime259;1914751Coming here right now, however, will not lead to the quick movement promised by the 2.5 yr upgrade/6 yr flow from our upper-management. [/QUOTE]


The individual making this statement would not qualify as any sort of "upper manager" in the chain of command as far as who makes the decisions that could effect actual change. I'm surprised he actually wrote it considering the hoops that need to be jumped through and assumptions that had to be made to reach those numbers, and the additional problem there were no real solutions ready to be implemented to reach the objectives.

But then, our managers like making absurd assumptions when it comes to things like this. Time To Flow chart, anyone? Earnings Chart related to flow? Yes, those are working out just fine... We'll just add this latest batch of bad math to the pile already in the fireplace.

 

That and popping kids left and right aren't the smartest things to do when working for a regional.

Good Luck!

 

It's not that fluid as you are making out. Not fluid enough where you were touting envoy last week and now apparently p*ssing on it this week. Nothing has changed that fast, its simply not a good place to be, that has not changed in the last year. The only thing that is changing is you. I think you are all just mad because this missed flow has un done all the nonsense you have been spewing over the last few weeks on how envoy is the place to be or how flow is everything yada yada yada.

I'll stay nice and just end this post here.

 

Many people who don't spend half their life in airline forums might disagree with you, sir. I actually think having kids and buying a house were the best and smartest decisions I have made since working for a regional!

 

You be dizzy, bro.

I have no idea what orifice you pulled that 250 number from. I don't hate Envoy, but I DO take issue with deliberate misinformation. Wilson's letter stated that 481 Envoy pilots flowed from January 2013, but AA didn't even start street hiring (the app window opened 10/1/13 IIRC), nor did ANY of the 824 pilots (mixed with the first class of street hires) hit AA property until 12/3/13. That means perhaps 150 or 1/3 of that number represented had nothing to do with meeting 824/new-hire quota's as those pilots were part of a different flow mechanism that was required by arbitration and there were NO street hires until that 12/3 class and virtually ALL of 2013 had nothing to do with the equation.

If he means well (and if YOU mean well), why so much spin and misinformation ? It's interesting today you say the above, but a week ago, you said this; "we were lied to and AS USUAL, the flow is not working as designed" (see "100% flowthrough..." thread post #148 - 6/20/15).

You see, when you guys spread this stuff and then flip-flop like a freshly caught carp lying on the dock, what confidence can one get in ANYTHING you say ?

I hear of A LOT of Envoy pilots doing the same thing here and on other forums and not just PSA, but RAH, Piedmont and even Delta (a recent incident) ! It seems the "unbecoming" dept. is well staffed at Envoy these days as well.

 

As one who has repeatedly pointed out the wisdom of realizing the realities of the regional airline business like squandered opportunities, empty promises, meaningless claims and the "fluidity" of this segment of the industry and been bashed for it by the usual suspects, it's tragic that so many Envoy pilots simply aren't interested in its history or in the history of Eagle/Envoy or their past and present managements.

If they had, most of these discussions wouldn't need to take place. What's occurring now is really no different then what has in the past. Different people, sure, but essentially the same old story. That's why I think it's extremely unlikely the regional industry will remain viable for more than a few more years without the need to morph it into something else and much smaller, whatever that is.

Right now, the industry and Envoy are just kicking the can (sometimes forward, sometimes around in circles), but eventually there won't be a can worth kicking anymore.