New Envoy Information
02-03-2016, 05:11 PM
#1031
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by Skyvector
Flat spin? You are shooting blanks, thrustlever.
02-03-2016, 05:15 PM
#1032
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 787
Originally Posted by eaglefly
Although amusing to watch Jackals high pawing each other in a tag team attack of emptyness, you still can't resuscitate the 2.5/6 claim. Keep up the chest compressions and mouth-to-mouth, but the patient is already blue.
02-03-2016, 05:31 PM
#1033
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 787
For the record, I've been trying to avoid posting anything for the time being as the Union is working with the company on certain issues. But in light of eaglefly/thrustlever/grim reaper/dirk diggler being unable to get over himself, I'll clear up as much as I can.
There are two issues at play here. Issue one, which is the only REAL issue is semantics in regards to metering. The contract states the company can meter if flowing more than 30 will disrupt operations at Envoy. The company has decided to meter to 30 stating that operations will be disrupted at some point down the road. On the flip side of that, the argument-which I agree with for the record-is that the company can't claim a disruption in operations when we are currently over-staffed.
So the question then becomes: can the company meter or not meter? Either way, the minimum that will go is 30. That's worse case. And this is the only real issue at present.
Unfortunately this thing has taken a life of it's own online thanks to eagle lounge (as usual). People quickly began to extrapolate that 5 people were withheld this month will turn into 10 next month, 20 the month after that and so on. And that somehow all this will affect our upgrade and flow times.
Here's the truth...and I hope everyone pays attention: All of our upgrade and flow numbers are based on flowing the minimum per month. Which is 30/month for the 824 and 25/month for the Protected Pilot group and so on. That hasn't changed.
American could hire 200 pilots next month and meter down to 30...and the upgrade/flow numbers would still be unchanged...because the minimum flowed. The issue in that case would be the same we have now: Can the company meter? I'm part of the group that doesn't think the company can in an over-staffed situation.
But those are two separate issues. The only thing that could potentially throw our upgrade/flow numbers off is if the hiring numbers dried up. Even then it would take multiple months throughout the year of no hiring to have a tangible effect.
Finally, the two emails the Union sent out recently is the Union doing exactly what they should be doing: putting pressure on the company to explain why they metered from 35 to 30 for next month. They have tied in the flow to upgrade and hiring numbers because American is using flow as a recruiting tool. It's a classic turncoat tactic: Use the company's words against them. The Charlie Bucket email was another example of this. The Union used recruiting numbers from 2015 to extrapolate a negative picture...again, for the company's benefit. This was no accident. Up until September 2015 we were hiring very few pilots. Since then the numbers have been doing very well.
Those Union emails have a target audience and it isn't the pilots. It's the company. Everyone from Parker, Isom, Hashimoto, down to Winkley, Temples, and Pedro receive any and all Union communications on their desk daily. Think about that...the Union knows what they are doing. Let them do their job without losing your cool.
Don't make any of this more than what it is. As long as 30/month are flowing-which they are-the upgrade and flow estimates are unchanged. The one and only issue here is the original one: can the company meter down to 30 when we are over-staffed? I say NO, they can not. Lets focus on getting that resolved without setting fire to the entire house just because there is a draft in one of the windows.
There are two issues at play here. Issue one, which is the only REAL issue is semantics in regards to metering. The contract states the company can meter if flowing more than 30 will disrupt operations at Envoy. The company has decided to meter to 30 stating that operations will be disrupted at some point down the road. On the flip side of that, the argument-which I agree with for the record-is that the company can't claim a disruption in operations when we are currently over-staffed.
So the question then becomes: can the company meter or not meter? Either way, the minimum that will go is 30. That's worse case. And this is the only real issue at present.
Unfortunately this thing has taken a life of it's own online thanks to eagle lounge (as usual). People quickly began to extrapolate that 5 people were withheld this month will turn into 10 next month, 20 the month after that and so on. And that somehow all this will affect our upgrade and flow times.
Here's the truth...and I hope everyone pays attention: All of our upgrade and flow numbers are based on flowing the minimum per month. Which is 30/month for the 824 and 25/month for the Protected Pilot group and so on. That hasn't changed.
American could hire 200 pilots next month and meter down to 30...and the upgrade/flow numbers would still be unchanged...because the minimum flowed. The issue in that case would be the same we have now: Can the company meter? I'm part of the group that doesn't think the company can in an over-staffed situation.
But those are two separate issues. The only thing that could potentially throw our upgrade/flow numbers off is if the hiring numbers dried up. Even then it would take multiple months throughout the year of no hiring to have a tangible effect.
Finally, the two emails the Union sent out recently is the Union doing exactly what they should be doing: putting pressure on the company to explain why they metered from 35 to 30 for next month. They have tied in the flow to upgrade and hiring numbers because American is using flow as a recruiting tool. It's a classic turncoat tactic: Use the company's words against them. The Charlie Bucket email was another example of this. The Union used recruiting numbers from 2015 to extrapolate a negative picture...again, for the company's benefit. This was no accident. Up until September 2015 we were hiring very few pilots. Since then the numbers have been doing very well.
Those Union emails have a target audience and it isn't the pilots. It's the company. Everyone from Parker, Isom, Hashimoto, down to Winkley, Temples, and Pedro receive any and all Union communications on their desk daily. Think about that...the Union knows what they are doing. Let them do their job without losing your cool.
Don't make any of this more than what it is. As long as 30/month are flowing-which they are-the upgrade and flow estimates are unchanged. The one and only issue here is the original one: can the company meter down to 30 when we are over-staffed? I say NO, they can not. Lets focus on getting that resolved without setting fire to the entire house just because there is a draft in one of the windows.
02-03-2016, 05:37 PM
#1035
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Position: Feito no Brasil, CA
Posts: 833
Originally Posted by eaglefly
All this silly banter aside folks, the topic on hand is about Envoy. The 2.5 upgrade projection fell into a flat spin shortly after takeoff resulting in a smoking hole and now the flow is shuddering on the edge of a stall and middle of this year is likely to ride the stick pusher to an unknown destination.
Caveat Emptor.
Caveat Emptor.
02-03-2016, 05:45 PM
#1036
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Position: Feito no Brasil, CA
Posts: 833
Originally Posted by eaglefly
Since you obviously can't maintain stability, nor post a reasonable response to me without flying off the handle, what conclusion could one come to about you ?
Yup, that's the conclusion I can't help but come to.
Yup, that's the conclusion I can't help but come to.
I'm as sane as sane gets, I have a life outside of this forumI actually enjoy some of the questions asked here, especially by the people who have legit questions and concerns about the industry and envoy, it's a nice way to remember why I got into this industry despite the bankruptcy turmoil. I never let a forum get to me. I can let go of the keyboard. So far, your conclusions are that of a rabble rouser on a soap box.
02-03-2016, 05:47 PM
#1037
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by Skyvector
For the record, I've been trying to avoid posting anything for the time being as the Union is working with the company on certain issues. But in light of eaglefly/thrustlever/grim reaper/dirk diggler being unable to get over himself, I'll clear up as much as I can.
There are two issues at play here. Issue one, which is the only REAL issue is semantics in regards to metering. The contract states the company can meter if flowing more than 30 will disrupt operations at Envoy. The company has decided to meter to 30 stating that operations will be disrupted at some point down the road. On the flip side of that, the argument-which I agree with for the record-is that the company can't claim a disruption in operations when we are currently over-staffed.
So the question then becomes: can the company meter or not meter? Either way, the minimum that will go is 30. That's worse case. And this is the only real issue at present.
Unfortunately this thing has taken a life of it's own online thanks to eagle lounge (as usual). People quickly began to extrapolate that 5 people were withheld this month will turn into 10 next month, 20 the month after that and so on. And that somehow all this will affect our upgrade and flow times.
Here's the truth...and I hope everyone pays attention: All of our upgrade and flow numbers are based on flowing the minimum per month. Which is 30/month for the 824 and 25/month for the Protected Pilot group and so on. That hasn't changed.
American could hire 200 pilots next month and meter down to 30...and the upgrade/flow numbers would still be unchanged...because the minimum flowed. The issue in that case would be the same we have now: Can the company meter? I'm part of the group that doesn't think the company can in an over-staffed situation.
But those are two separate issues. The only thing that could potentially throw our upgrade/flow numbers off is if the hiring numbers dried up. Even then it would take multiple months throughout the year of no hiring to have a tangible effect.
Finally, the two emails the Union sent out recently is the Union doing exactly what they should be doing: putting pressure on the company to explain why they metered from 35 to 30 for next month. They have tied in the flow to upgrade and hiring numbers because American is using flow as a recruiting tool. It's a classic turncoat tactic: Use the company's words against them. The Charlie Bucket email was another example of this. The Union used recruiting numbers from 2015 to extrapolate a negative picture...again, for the company's benefit. This was no accident. Up until September 2015 we were hiring very few pilots. Since then the numbers have been doing very well.
Those Union emails have a target audience and it isn't the pilots. It's the company. Everyone from Parker, Isom, Hashimoto, down to Winkley, Temples, and Pedro receive any and all Union communications on their desk daily. Think about that...the Union knows what they are doing. Let them do their job without losing your cool.
Don't make any of this more than what it is. As long as 30/month are flowing-which they are-the upgrade and flow estimates are unchanged. The one and only issue here is the original one: can the company meter down to 30 when we are over-staffed? I say NO, they can not. Lets focus on getting that resolved without setting fire to the entire house just because there is a draft in one of the windows.
There are two issues at play here. Issue one, which is the only REAL issue is semantics in regards to metering. The contract states the company can meter if flowing more than 30 will disrupt operations at Envoy. The company has decided to meter to 30 stating that operations will be disrupted at some point down the road. On the flip side of that, the argument-which I agree with for the record-is that the company can't claim a disruption in operations when we are currently over-staffed.
So the question then becomes: can the company meter or not meter? Either way, the minimum that will go is 30. That's worse case. And this is the only real issue at present.
Unfortunately this thing has taken a life of it's own online thanks to eagle lounge (as usual). People quickly began to extrapolate that 5 people were withheld this month will turn into 10 next month, 20 the month after that and so on. And that somehow all this will affect our upgrade and flow times.
Here's the truth...and I hope everyone pays attention: All of our upgrade and flow numbers are based on flowing the minimum per month. Which is 30/month for the 824 and 25/month for the Protected Pilot group and so on. That hasn't changed.
American could hire 200 pilots next month and meter down to 30...and the upgrade/flow numbers would still be unchanged...because the minimum flowed. The issue in that case would be the same we have now: Can the company meter? I'm part of the group that doesn't think the company can in an over-staffed situation.
But those are two separate issues. The only thing that could potentially throw our upgrade/flow numbers off is if the hiring numbers dried up. Even then it would take multiple months throughout the year of no hiring to have a tangible effect.
Finally, the two emails the Union sent out recently is the Union doing exactly what they should be doing: putting pressure on the company to explain why they metered from 35 to 30 for next month. They have tied in the flow to upgrade and hiring numbers because American is using flow as a recruiting tool. It's a classic turncoat tactic: Use the company's words against them. The Charlie Bucket email was another example of this. The Union used recruiting numbers from 2015 to extrapolate a negative picture...again, for the company's benefit. This was no accident. Up until September 2015 we were hiring very few pilots. Since then the numbers have been doing very well.
Those Union emails have a target audience and it isn't the pilots. It's the company. Everyone from Parker, Isom, Hashimoto, down to Winkley, Temples, and Pedro receive any and all Union communications on their desk daily. Think about that...the Union knows what they are doing. Let them do their job without losing your cool.
Don't make any of this more than what it is. As long as 30/month are flowing-which they are-the upgrade and flow estimates are unchanged. The one and only issue here is the original one: can the company meter down to 30 when we are over-staffed? I say NO, they can not. Lets focus on getting that resolved without setting fire to the entire house just because there is a draft in one of the windows.
The reality is this (in much shorter Readers Digest version); The Envoy flow is being slowed to minimum rate when it is neither necessary nor warranted.
- Part-time lines.
- ZERO time lines.
- Low block hour lines (< 65 hours).
- 35-50% reserve coverage.
It is undeniable by those with no motive, assigned task or agenda.
02-03-2016, 05:48 PM
#1038
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by AdiosMikeFox
I'm as sane as sane gets, I have a life outside of this forumI actually enjoy some of the questions asked here, especially by the people who have legit questions and concerns about the industry and envoy, it's a nice way to remember why I got into this industry despite the bankruptcy turmoil. I never let a forum get to me. I can let go of the keyboard. So far, your conclusions are that of a rabble rouser on a soap box.
02-03-2016, 05:51 PM
#1039
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 787
Originally Posted by eaglefly
This is just another post of spin mixed perhaps more desperation then usual. Considering the circumstances, it's to be expected.
The reality is this (in much shorter Readers Digest version); The Envoy flow is being slowed to minimum rate when it is neither necessary nor warranted.
- Part-time lines.
- ZERO time lines.
- Low block hour lines (< 65 hours).
- 35-50% reserve coverage.
It is undeniable by those with no motive, assigned task or agenda.
The reality is this (in much shorter Readers Digest version); The Envoy flow is being slowed to minimum rate when it is neither necessary nor warranted.
- Part-time lines.
- ZERO time lines.
- Low block hour lines (< 65 hours).
- 35-50% reserve coverage.
It is undeniable by those with no motive, assigned task or agenda.
And of course an "AA" pilot would know so much detail about what our lines and reserve coverage look like. Say hi to my other favorite AA pilot: Mason32.
02-03-2016, 06:02 PM
#1040
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 540
Originally Posted by Skyvector
For the record, I've been trying to avoid posting anything for the time being as the Union is working with the company on certain issues. But in light of eaglefly/thrustlever/grim reaper/dirk diggler being unable to get over himself, I'll clear up as much as I can.
There are two issues at play here. Issue one, which is the only REAL issue is semantics in regards to metering. The contract states the company can meter if flowing more than 30 will disrupt operations at Envoy. The company has decided to meter to 30 stating that operations will be disrupted at some point down the road. On the flip side of that, the argument-which I agree with for the record-is that the company can't claim a disruption in operations when we are currently over-staffed.
So the question then becomes: can the company meter or not meter? Either way, the minimum that will go is 30. That's worse case. And this is the only real issue at present.
Unfortunately this thing has taken a life of it's own online thanks to eagle lounge (as usual). People quickly began to extrapolate that 5 people were withheld this month will turn into 10 next month, 20 the month after that and so on. And that somehow all this will affect our upgrade and flow times.
Here's the truth...and I hope everyone pays attention: All of our upgrade and flow numbers are based on flowing the minimum per month. Which is 30/month for the 824 and 25/month for the Protected Pilot group and so on. That hasn't changed.
American could hire 200 pilots next month and meter down to 30...and the upgrade/flow numbers would still be unchanged...because the minimum flowed. The issue in that case would be the same we have now: Can the company meter? I'm part of the group that doesn't think the company can in an over-staffed situation.
But those are two separate issues. The only thing that could potentially throw our upgrade/flow numbers off is if the hiring numbers dried up. Even then it would take multiple months throughout the year of no hiring to have a tangible effect.
Finally, the two emails the Union sent out recently is the Union doing exactly what they should be doing: putting pressure on the company to explain why they metered from 35 to 30 for next month. They have tied in the flow to upgrade and hiring numbers because American is using flow as a recruiting tool. It's a classic turncoat tactic: Use the company's words against them. The Charlie Bucket email was another example of this. The Union used recruiting numbers from 2015 to extrapolate a negative picture...again, for the company's benefit. This was no accident. Up until September 2015 we were hiring very few pilots. Since then the numbers have been doing very well.
Those Union emails have a target audience and it isn't the pilots. It's the company. Everyone from Parker, Isom, Hashimoto, down to Winkley, Temples, and Pedro receive any and all Union communications on their desk daily. Think about that...the Union knows what they are doing. Let them do their job without losing your cool.
Don't make any of this more than what it is. As long as 30/month are flowing-which they are-the upgrade and flow estimates are unchanged. The one and only issue here is the original one: can the company meter down to 30 when we are over-staffed? I say NO, they can not. Lets focus on getting that resolved without setting fire to the entire house just because there is a draft in one of the windows.
There are two issues at play here. Issue one, which is the only REAL issue is semantics in regards to metering. The contract states the company can meter if flowing more than 30 will disrupt operations at Envoy. The company has decided to meter to 30 stating that operations will be disrupted at some point down the road. On the flip side of that, the argument-which I agree with for the record-is that the company can't claim a disruption in operations when we are currently over-staffed.
So the question then becomes: can the company meter or not meter? Either way, the minimum that will go is 30. That's worse case. And this is the only real issue at present.
Unfortunately this thing has taken a life of it's own online thanks to eagle lounge (as usual). People quickly began to extrapolate that 5 people were withheld this month will turn into 10 next month, 20 the month after that and so on. And that somehow all this will affect our upgrade and flow times.
Here's the truth...and I hope everyone pays attention: All of our upgrade and flow numbers are based on flowing the minimum per month. Which is 30/month for the 824 and 25/month for the Protected Pilot group and so on. That hasn't changed.
American could hire 200 pilots next month and meter down to 30...and the upgrade/flow numbers would still be unchanged...because the minimum flowed. The issue in that case would be the same we have now: Can the company meter? I'm part of the group that doesn't think the company can in an over-staffed situation.
But those are two separate issues. The only thing that could potentially throw our upgrade/flow numbers off is if the hiring numbers dried up. Even then it would take multiple months throughout the year of no hiring to have a tangible effect.
Finally, the two emails the Union sent out recently is the Union doing exactly what they should be doing: putting pressure on the company to explain why they metered from 35 to 30 for next month. They have tied in the flow to upgrade and hiring numbers because American is using flow as a recruiting tool. It's a classic turncoat tactic: Use the company's words against them. The Charlie Bucket email was another example of this. The Union used recruiting numbers from 2015 to extrapolate a negative picture...again, for the company's benefit. This was no accident. Up until September 2015 we were hiring very few pilots. Since then the numbers have been doing very well.
Those Union emails have a target audience and it isn't the pilots. It's the company. Everyone from Parker, Isom, Hashimoto, down to Winkley, Temples, and Pedro receive any and all Union communications on their desk daily. Think about that...the Union knows what they are doing. Let them do their job without losing your cool.
Don't make any of this more than what it is. As long as 30/month are flowing-which they are-the upgrade and flow estimates are unchanged. The one and only issue here is the original one: can the company meter down to 30 when we are over-staffed? I say NO, they can not. Lets focus on getting that resolved without setting fire to the entire house just because there is a draft in one of the windows.
As the Envoy boys have been suffering greatly through the past several years, you flippantly say "If we send the min, so what? We still all eventually get to AA." After the friends and family are sandwiched in on top of Envoy pilots who were obligated by contract to flow.
Sir, you should evaluate these patently false statements and realize the company you are in love with has been having an affair with someone else for years.
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