New Envoy Information
02-01-2016 | 10:32 AM
#1031
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
I am new at Envoy and in class now. During the indoc we were told by management that upgrading in 2 1/2 years is indeed still very much today's reality for all of us in the room. In addition, the flow could go even lower than 6 years as it stands now. Envoy is a great place to land!
When I got hired at ENY, management said the same things.
10 years to upgrade, been 16+ years and no flow in sight.
That 2.5/6year lie started in 1999....
02-01-2016 | 10:43 AM
#1032
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
As for the real task at hand, here is how our MEC broke down the 2.5/6 using FO Charlie Bucket..
In order to meet Captain Wilson’s 2.5 year upgrade plan a new hire pilot’s relative seniority needs to go from 0% to approximately 40% in that time frame. Mr. Wilson’s announcement of this plan was made May 29, 2015 and the following focuses on a pilot who we will call, “First Officer Charlie Bucket”, hired immediately after the claim was originally made. We used the assumptions of the most junior CA being at 40% relative seniority (as it is now) and the airline staying the same size as it is today.
When we compare our 7-15-2015 Official Seniority List with the latest official Seniority List from January, we are able to get a sense as to where we started, where we are, and where we are headed.
A 1.33% relative seniority rate of change per month (40% total increase required dived by 30 months) is required on day one of training for a new hire to upgrade in 2.5 years at any airline where the junior captain is around 40% seniority like we find at Envoy. Since the announcement, Charlie Bucket has seen a relative seniority increase of 4.08%, which is approximately 0.68% per month, approximately half of what is required. Due to this stagnation, FO Charlie now has some significant catching up to do to attain a 2.5-year upgrade. Every month that goes by, it becomes more and more difficult to attain this goal.
In order to maintain a 1.33% rate of change Envoy would need to hire 805 pilots by the end of 2017. 34 new hires per month will be required, at a minimum, moving forward.
We hired 88 in the last 6 months of 2015.
These numbers take an assumed number of pilots we send to AA and average attrition relative to Charlie Bucket’s seniority into account.
The management of Envoy is ready, but AAG does not seem to be interested in allowing the necessary investments and improvements that would make our carrier competitive in comparison to our peer airlines. We quickly need to see announcements that would truly excite a new hire into choosing Envoy over an airline that offers faster upgrades, higher pay, and geographically varied bases.
We are extremely receptive to helping management improve the attractiveness of this carrier, and indeed have presented quality, durable recruitment and retention ideas that will both provide the necessary inducements for new hires to come here and existing pilots to stay here.
SO. Is 2.5/6 possible? Absolutely, but not when envoys sole recruitment tool (flow) is violated at will and or contract is nothing more then a piece of toilet paper in their eyes.
02-01-2016 | 12:15 PM
#1033
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 894
Likes: 0
You must have forgot to check the box.. 1999 hire guys going every month at 30/month. Should be through everyone else in 99 by May. Less than 100 left.
02-01-2016 | 12:47 PM
#1034
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
02-01-2016 | 12:55 PM
#1035
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 490
Likes: 0
Not a troll at all. I'm a 2008 hire, CRJ FO.
As for the real task at hand, here is how our MEC broke down the 2.5/6 using FO Charlie Bucket..
In order to meet Captain Wilson’s 2.5 year upgrade plan a new hire pilot’s relative seniority needs to go from 0% to approximately 40% in that time frame. Mr. Wilson’s announcement of this plan was made May 29, 2015 and the following focuses on a pilot who we will call, “First Officer Charlie Bucket”, hired immediately after the claim was originally made. We used the assumptions of the most junior CA being at 40% relative seniority (as it is now) and the airline staying the same size as it is today.
When we compare our 7-15-2015 Official Seniority List with the latest official Seniority List from January, we are able to get a sense as to where we started, where we are, and where we are headed.
A 1.33% relative seniority rate of change per month (40% total increase required dived by 30 months) is required on day one of training for a new hire to upgrade in 2.5 years at any airline where the junior captain is around 40% seniority like we find at Envoy. Since the announcement, Charlie Bucket has seen a relative seniority increase of 4.08%, which is approximately 0.68% per month, approximately half of what is required. Due to this stagnation, FO Charlie now has some significant catching up to do to attain a 2.5-year upgrade. Every month that goes by, it becomes more and more difficult to attain this goal.
In order to maintain a 1.33% rate of change Envoy would need to hire 805 pilots by the end of 2017. 34 new hires per month will be required, at a minimum, moving forward.
We hired 88 in the last 6 months of 2015.
These numbers take an assumed number of pilots we send to AA and average attrition relative to Charlie Bucket’s seniority into account.
The management of Envoy is ready, but AAG does not seem to be interested in allowing the necessary investments and improvements that would make our carrier competitive in comparison to our peer airlines. We quickly need to see announcements that would truly excite a new hire into choosing Envoy over an airline that offers faster upgrades, higher pay, and geographically varied bases.
We are extremely receptive to helping management improve the attractiveness of this carrier, and indeed have presented quality, durable recruitment and retention ideas that will both provide the necessary inducements for new hires to come here and existing pilots to stay here.
SO. Is 2.5/6 possible? Absolutely, but not when envoys sole recruitment tool (flow) is violated at will and or contract is nothing more then a piece of toilet paper in their eyes.
As for the real task at hand, here is how our MEC broke down the 2.5/6 using FO Charlie Bucket..
In order to meet Captain Wilson’s 2.5 year upgrade plan a new hire pilot’s relative seniority needs to go from 0% to approximately 40% in that time frame. Mr. Wilson’s announcement of this plan was made May 29, 2015 and the following focuses on a pilot who we will call, “First Officer Charlie Bucket”, hired immediately after the claim was originally made. We used the assumptions of the most junior CA being at 40% relative seniority (as it is now) and the airline staying the same size as it is today.
When we compare our 7-15-2015 Official Seniority List with the latest official Seniority List from January, we are able to get a sense as to where we started, where we are, and where we are headed.
A 1.33% relative seniority rate of change per month (40% total increase required dived by 30 months) is required on day one of training for a new hire to upgrade in 2.5 years at any airline where the junior captain is around 40% seniority like we find at Envoy. Since the announcement, Charlie Bucket has seen a relative seniority increase of 4.08%, which is approximately 0.68% per month, approximately half of what is required. Due to this stagnation, FO Charlie now has some significant catching up to do to attain a 2.5-year upgrade. Every month that goes by, it becomes more and more difficult to attain this goal.
In order to maintain a 1.33% rate of change Envoy would need to hire 805 pilots by the end of 2017. 34 new hires per month will be required, at a minimum, moving forward.
We hired 88 in the last 6 months of 2015.
These numbers take an assumed number of pilots we send to AA and average attrition relative to Charlie Bucket’s seniority into account.
The management of Envoy is ready, but AAG does not seem to be interested in allowing the necessary investments and improvements that would make our carrier competitive in comparison to our peer airlines. We quickly need to see announcements that would truly excite a new hire into choosing Envoy over an airline that offers faster upgrades, higher pay, and geographically varied bases.
We are extremely receptive to helping management improve the attractiveness of this carrier, and indeed have presented quality, durable recruitment and retention ideas that will both provide the necessary inducements for new hires to come here and existing pilots to stay here.
SO. Is 2.5/6 possible? Absolutely, but not when envoys sole recruitment tool (flow) is violated at will and or contract is nothing more then a piece of toilet paper in their eyes.
You and I both said the same thing, except I used two words.
02-01-2016 | 01:14 PM
#1036
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 540
Likes: 0
Not a troll at all. I'm a 2008 hire, CRJ FO.
As for the real task at hand, here is how our MEC broke down the 2.5/6 using FO Charlie Bucket..
In order to meet Captain Wilson’s 2.5 year upgrade plan a new hire pilot’s relative seniority needs to go from 0% to approximately 40% in that time frame. Mr. Wilson’s announcement of this plan was made May 29, 2015 and the following focuses on a pilot who we will call, “First Officer Charlie Bucket”, hired immediately after the claim was originally made. We used the assumptions of the most junior CA being at 40% relative seniority (as it is now) and the airline staying the same size as it is today.
When we compare our 7-15-2015 Official Seniority List with the latest official Seniority List from January, we are able to get a sense as to where we started, where we are, and where we are headed.
A 1.33% relative seniority rate of change per month (40% total increase required dived by 30 months) is required on day one of training for a new hire to upgrade in 2.5 years at any airline where the junior captain is around 40% seniority like we find at Envoy. Since the announcement, Charlie Bucket has seen a relative seniority increase of 4.08%, which is approximately 0.68% per month, approximately half of what is required. Due to this stagnation, FO Charlie now has some significant catching up to do to attain a 2.5-year upgrade. Every month that goes by, it becomes more and more difficult to attain this goal.
In order to maintain a 1.33% rate of change Envoy would need to hire 805 pilots by the end of 2017. 34 new hires per month will be required, at a minimum, moving forward.
We hired 88 in the last 6 months of 2015.
These numbers take an assumed number of pilots we send to AA and average attrition relative to Charlie Bucket’s seniority into account.
The management of Envoy is ready, but AAG does not seem to be interested in allowing the necessary investments and improvements that would make our carrier competitive in comparison to our peer airlines. We quickly need to see announcements that would truly excite a new hire into choosing Envoy over an airline that offers faster upgrades, higher pay, and geographically varied bases.
We are extremely receptive to helping management improve the attractiveness of this carrier, and indeed have presented quality, durable recruitment and retention ideas that will both provide the necessary inducements for new hires to come here and existing pilots to stay here.
SO. Is 2.5/6 possible? Absolutely, but not when envoys sole recruitment tool (flow) is violated at will and or contract is nothing more then a piece of toilet paper in their eyes.
As for the real task at hand, here is how our MEC broke down the 2.5/6 using FO Charlie Bucket..
In order to meet Captain Wilson’s 2.5 year upgrade plan a new hire pilot’s relative seniority needs to go from 0% to approximately 40% in that time frame. Mr. Wilson’s announcement of this plan was made May 29, 2015 and the following focuses on a pilot who we will call, “First Officer Charlie Bucket”, hired immediately after the claim was originally made. We used the assumptions of the most junior CA being at 40% relative seniority (as it is now) and the airline staying the same size as it is today.
When we compare our 7-15-2015 Official Seniority List with the latest official Seniority List from January, we are able to get a sense as to where we started, where we are, and where we are headed.
A 1.33% relative seniority rate of change per month (40% total increase required dived by 30 months) is required on day one of training for a new hire to upgrade in 2.5 years at any airline where the junior captain is around 40% seniority like we find at Envoy. Since the announcement, Charlie Bucket has seen a relative seniority increase of 4.08%, which is approximately 0.68% per month, approximately half of what is required. Due to this stagnation, FO Charlie now has some significant catching up to do to attain a 2.5-year upgrade. Every month that goes by, it becomes more and more difficult to attain this goal.
In order to maintain a 1.33% rate of change Envoy would need to hire 805 pilots by the end of 2017. 34 new hires per month will be required, at a minimum, moving forward.
We hired 88 in the last 6 months of 2015.
These numbers take an assumed number of pilots we send to AA and average attrition relative to Charlie Bucket’s seniority into account.
The management of Envoy is ready, but AAG does not seem to be interested in allowing the necessary investments and improvements that would make our carrier competitive in comparison to our peer airlines. We quickly need to see announcements that would truly excite a new hire into choosing Envoy over an airline that offers faster upgrades, higher pay, and geographically varied bases.
We are extremely receptive to helping management improve the attractiveness of this carrier, and indeed have presented quality, durable recruitment and retention ideas that will both provide the necessary inducements for new hires to come here and existing pilots to stay here.
SO. Is 2.5/6 possible? Absolutely, but not when envoys sole recruitment tool (flow) is violated at will and or contract is nothing more then a piece of toilet paper in their eyes.
You already have your answer. They can afford to let people go right now, have a contractual arbitrated agreement to abide by and they decide to hold back and claim schedule integrity. Why? Any good will they had generated and any new hires attracted to this place due to the flow, well, good will is gone. New hires, probably more people will decide against ENY now when everyone is scraping the bottom of the barrel for pilots already.
This flow will be a trickle through by this time next year and the 824 are gone. At best. Maybe 5 guys a month?
Liars. That's what AAG/ENY management is. Pure and simple.
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