New Envoy Information
#3701
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 540
You just walk right into this with ease.
Sure.....
FACTS:
- Pilots at Envoy flowing to AA right now have been here for 16+ years. When they started, they were told they would flow in less than 3 years. Sound familiar to Fatboy Wilsons claim of 2.5/6???
- The claim of 300 flows this year hasn't happened and will not happen. 127 to date and we are told less than the less than number can now be expected (sub 200). Not exactly ripping through flows are we? Hmmmmmm(see first bullet fact for reflection)
- New hires are getting the 175 and because it has been taken away from any current FO, except upgrade, it will, even if temporarily, create its own little world of fast quality of life movement. All the while, senior FOs are stuck on the 145, with little to no movement. While this may sound great to a potential new hire, it should be telling of how much management here cares about fairness and taking care of the FOs that have stayed the course even though many of their friends successfully moved to the PSAs and Mesas of the world and upgraded. What a great reward for 6-8 years of service. To put it plainly - this makes it obvious that once your nuts are in the envoy grinder, it will happen to you too.
- Artificial first year pay opens up to dismal second year pay. What industry do you get an almost 50% pay cut the second year? Again, all to get you "in the door". Then the pain begins.
This isn't a true fact, but a fairly wise summation based on my decades of experience: The only people on here that are cheerleading the company are doing it because they are management , Patsy's of, or interested in their own well being only. If I were interested in my own well being I should be on the other side, but I actually have a conscience and care for others.
Sure.....
FACTS:
- Pilots at Envoy flowing to AA right now have been here for 16+ years. When they started, they were told they would flow in less than 3 years. Sound familiar to Fatboy Wilsons claim of 2.5/6???
- The claim of 300 flows this year hasn't happened and will not happen. 127 to date and we are told less than the less than number can now be expected (sub 200). Not exactly ripping through flows are we? Hmmmmmm(see first bullet fact for reflection)
- New hires are getting the 175 and because it has been taken away from any current FO, except upgrade, it will, even if temporarily, create its own little world of fast quality of life movement. All the while, senior FOs are stuck on the 145, with little to no movement. While this may sound great to a potential new hire, it should be telling of how much management here cares about fairness and taking care of the FOs that have stayed the course even though many of their friends successfully moved to the PSAs and Mesas of the world and upgraded. What a great reward for 6-8 years of service. To put it plainly - this makes it obvious that once your nuts are in the envoy grinder, it will happen to you too.
- Artificial first year pay opens up to dismal second year pay. What industry do you get an almost 50% pay cut the second year? Again, all to get you "in the door". Then the pain begins.
This isn't a true fact, but a fairly wise summation based on my decades of experience: The only people on here that are cheerleading the company are doing it because they are management , Patsy's of, or interested in their own well being only. If I were interested in my own well being I should be on the other side, but I actually have a conscience and care for others.
I can project I'll make a million dollars next year but it does not make it reality.
FACTS
Current flow still at 15 1/2 year seniority.
Current upgrade still right around 8 years.
127 flows YTD. Not the 300-350 this year, 750 over the next two years as PROJECTED by some.
Working conditions are at the absolute worst in history of this carrier.
#3702
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Qualified to carry liquids through security.
Posts: 771
Pilot Crusader is exactly right in stating look at the FACTS.
I can project I'll make a million dollars next year but it does not make it reality.
FACTS
Current flow still at 15 1/2 year seniority.
Current upgrade still right around 8 years.
127 flows YTD. Not the 300-350 this year, 750 over the next two years as PROJECTED by some.
Working conditions are at the absolute worst in history of this carrier.
I can project I'll make a million dollars next year but it does not make it reality.
FACTS
Current flow still at 15 1/2 year seniority.
Current upgrade still right around 8 years.
127 flows YTD. Not the 300-350 this year, 750 over the next two years as PROJECTED by some.
Working conditions are at the absolute worst in history of this carrier.
#3703
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2007
Posts: 194
Directly quote off of EL ? The highlights in your post #3695 and above are hardly direct quotes. Inferences and perceptions, perhaps.
None this will change where Envoy is or where it appears to be heading. Perhaps you should concern yourself more with that then deflecting that situation with erroneous sharp-shooting of others posts and then misapplying your anger ?
None this will change where Envoy is or where it appears to be heading. Perhaps you should concern yourself more with that then deflecting that situation with erroneous sharp-shooting of others posts and then misapplying your anger ?
You try to create credibility thru misdirection and then get flustered and complain about "sharpshooting" your posts. Most internet forums are made for responding to other people's posts.
You want it to be an echo chamber for your regurgitated EL posts.
#3704
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
You conveniently forget (or is it deliberate misdirection ) others besides me are echoing that what you so desperately want to suppress, most of whom are Envoy pilots.
Again, take s break, close the sales briefcase for the holiday and kick back. If it truly is once again a great time to be an Envoy pilot, the future will prove that. If not, there will be plenty of time to blame me or others who have disputed many of the claims made in this forum as causing it.
#3706
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 540
Kindly enlighten me with some FACTS of your own then.
Generally your response is just to attack with no substantive facts of your own.
Statements like I'm "twisting the facts" or that "you don't even work here" hold no real meaning and give us nothing in the way of your insiders view of working at Envoy and supplying us with factual statements of your own, not projections or other company drivel.
Pilot Crusader has posted the exact same facts I have, 8 yr upgrade, 127 YTD flows, 15 1/2 yr seniority for current flows.....and he works there. Do you dispute his facts as well?
Generally your response is just to attack with no substantive facts of your own.
Statements like I'm "twisting the facts" or that "you don't even work here" hold no real meaning and give us nothing in the way of your insiders view of working at Envoy and supplying us with factual statements of your own, not projections or other company drivel.
Pilot Crusader has posted the exact same facts I have, 8 yr upgrade, 127 YTD flows, 15 1/2 yr seniority for current flows.....and he works there. Do you dispute his facts as well?
#3707
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Qualified to carry liquids through security.
Posts: 771
Kindly enlighten me with some FACTS of your own then.
Generally your response is just to attack with no substantive facts of your own.
Statements like I'm "twisting the facts" or that "you don't even work here" hold no real meaning and give us nothing in the way of your insiders view of working at Envoy and supplying us with factual statements of your own, not projections or other company drivel.
Pilot Crusader has posted the exact same facts I have, 8 yr upgrade, 127 YTD flows, 15 1/2 yr seniority for current flows.....and he works there. Do you dispute his facts as well?
Generally your response is just to attack with no substantive facts of your own.
Statements like I'm "twisting the facts" or that "you don't even work here" hold no real meaning and give us nothing in the way of your insiders view of working at Envoy and supplying us with factual statements of your own, not projections or other company drivel.
Pilot Crusader has posted the exact same facts I have, 8 yr upgrade, 127 YTD flows, 15 1/2 yr seniority for current flows.....and he works there. Do you dispute his facts as well?
At least eaglefly posts on the AA threads. If you really worked at allegiant, why don't you just concern yourself over there and that TA. Maybe go enlighten them with your wisdom. Maybe tell them how bad of a place envoy is. :'(
#3708
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,707
ok, let me ask what is the positives of envoy?
flow does not count.
my negatives about envoy, 1. aag management, 2. envoy v.p. flight ops and scheduling manager, 3, schedules that stink and get worse every month while giving the sweet schedules to others to fly, 4. pay stinks, 6. qol stinks, 7. benefits stink, 8. mec union stinks. did I miss anything?
now post your positives.
flow does not count.
my negatives about envoy, 1. aag management, 2. envoy v.p. flight ops and scheduling manager, 3, schedules that stink and get worse every month while giving the sweet schedules to others to fly, 4. pay stinks, 6. qol stinks, 7. benefits stink, 8. mec union stinks. did I miss anything?
now post your positives.
#3709
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 56
ok, let me ask what is the positives of envoy?
flow does not count.
my negatives about envoy, 1. aag management, 2. envoy v.p. flight ops and scheduling manager, 3, schedules that stink and get worse every month while giving the sweet schedules to others to fly, 4. pay stinks, 6. qol stinks, 7. benefits stink, 8. mec union stinks. did I miss anything?
now post your positives.
flow does not count.
my negatives about envoy, 1. aag management, 2. envoy v.p. flight ops and scheduling manager, 3, schedules that stink and get worse every month while giving the sweet schedules to others to fly, 4. pay stinks, 6. qol stinks, 7. benefits stink, 8. mec union stinks. did I miss anything?
now post your positives.
But I definitely agree with you on 6! It's terrible.. and when you ask crew scheduling for help, they are like robots, they won't do anything for you..
#3710
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Qualified to carry liquids through security.
Posts: 771
ok, let me ask what is the positives of envoy?
flow does not count.
my negatives about envoy, 1. aag management, 2. envoy v.p. flight ops and scheduling manager, 3, schedules that stink and get worse every month while giving the sweet schedules to others to fly, 4. pay stinks, 6. qol stinks, 7. benefits stink, 8. mec union stinks. did I miss anything?
now post your positives.
flow does not count.
my negatives about envoy, 1. aag management, 2. envoy v.p. flight ops and scheduling manager, 3, schedules that stink and get worse every month while giving the sweet schedules to others to fly, 4. pay stinks, 6. qol stinks, 7. benefits stink, 8. mec union stinks. did I miss anything?
now post your positives.
They have a lot to fix here. Will they? Who knows. But, at least they have deep pockets backing them when and if they decide to fix most of our problems.
As far as positives go, the only one I have is if you're new to the airlines and you want DFW as a base, envoy's your best bet when your other options are XJT and Mesa. Oh, and the flight benefits are honestly really good.
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