Originally Posted by eaglefly

My opinions here about Envoy come from more then just EL. I do still know pilots there, ones who've recently left and the sentiment from my experience is pretty consistent. I'm sorry this upsets you. The flow has failed its previous projections of the beginning of the year (as I and others predicted) and deflecting to past information isn't as relevant as to what is happening NOW. Likewise, poor Charlie Bucket's 2.5 year upgrade is STILL being sold and he's nowhere close to that. One of your compadres arrived this morning here to foam up the place with more whipping cream including the claim Envoy has and WILL park planes to honor the flow and yes, he says he stands by that too.

Seems a lot of people are standing by things that don't exist in the first place and not surprisingly, falling over when leaning on the non-existent. It's a beautiful holiday weekend and I figured the sales tent here would be closed in honor of that.

I was wrong.

Originally Posted by go skers

You say it's not the case then directly quote something that originated on EL.

Originally Posted by PilotCrusader

You just walk right into this with ease.

Sure.....

FACTS:
- Pilots at Envoy flowing to AA right now have been here for 16+ years. When they started, they were told they would flow in less than 3 years. Sound familiar to Fatboy Wilsons claim of 2.5/6???
- The claim of 300 flows this year hasn't happened and will not happen. 127 to date and we are told less than the less than number can now be expected (sub 200). Not exactly ripping through flows are we? Hmmmmmm(see first bullet fact for reflection)
- New hires are getting the 175 and because it has been taken away from any current FO, except upgrade, it will, even if temporarily, create its own little world of fast quality of life movement. All the while, senior FOs are stuck on the 145, with little to no movement. While this may sound great to a potential new hire, it should be telling of how much management here cares about fairness and taking care of the FOs that have stayed the course even though many of their friends successfully moved to the PSAs and Mesas of the world and upgraded. What a great reward for 6-8 years of service. To put it plainly - this makes it obvious that once your nuts are in the envoy grinder, it will happen to you too.
- Artificial first year pay opens up to dismal second year pay. What industry do you get an almost 50% pay cut the second year? Again, all to get you "in the door". Then the pain begins.

This isn't a true fact, but a fairly wise summation based on my decades of experience: The only people on here that are cheerleading the company are doing it because they are management , Patsy's of, or interested in their own well being only. If I were interested in my own well being I should be on the other side, but I actually have a conscience and care for others.

Originally Posted by ag386

Pilot Crusader is exactly right in stating look at the FACTS.

I can project I'll make a million dollars next year but it does not make it reality.

FACTS

Current flow still at 15 1/2 year seniority.

Current upgrade still right around 8 years.

127 flows YTD. Not the 300-350 this year, 750 over the next two years as PROJECTED by some.

Working conditions are at the absolute worst in history of this carrier.

Originally Posted by eaglefly

Directly quote off of EL ? The highlights in your post #3695 and above are hardly direct quotes. Inferences and perceptions, perhaps.

None this will change where Envoy is or where it appears to be heading. Perhaps you should concern yourself more with that then deflecting that situation with erroneous sharp-shooting of others posts and then misapplying your anger ?

Originally Posted by go skers

You use inferences and perceptions to make your information seem more valid. It sounds a lot worst to say I read it off EL than saying "I heard" "it sounds like" "from what I've been told" "what pilots are saying" "what I've gathered on the line"

Originally Posted by go skers

You try to create credibility thru misdirection and then get flustered and complain about "sharpshooting" your posts. Most internet forums are made for responding to other people's posts.

Originally Posted by go skers

You want it to be an echo chamber for your regurgitated EL posts.

Originally Posted by N927EV

How would you know? You were fired.

Originally Posted by N927EV

How would you know? You were fired.

Originally Posted by ag386

Kindly enlighten me with some FACTS of your own then.

Generally your response is just to attack with no substantive facts of your own.

Statements like I'm "twisting the facts" or that "you don't even work here" hold no real meaning and give us nothing in the way of your insiders view of working at Envoy and supplying us with factual statements of your own, not projections or other company drivel.

Pilot Crusader has posted the exact same facts I have, 8 yr upgrade, 127 YTD flows, 15 1/2 yr seniority for current flows.....and he works there. Do you dispute his facts as well?