eaglefly

It's a predictable day when it's no longer easy for a salesmen to conceal the shortcomings and insufficiencies of his misrepresented product. It's usually only a matter of time. As usual, when you cannot refute the message, you attack the messenger. As was pointed out elsewhere, Envoy's own sales pitch here on this forum guarantee's 50% of each class. As for not violating your contract, it would appear Envoy ALPA disagrees with you, at least that is what has been stated.


But, the new figures are LESS then 300 a year which is also in disagreement to your previous sales pitch, now confirmed to be malarkey and for the record more personal attack.

It's violating the represented claims previously made and STILL made and once again as per Wilson, it will be LESS then 300/year. You can't even get your own B.S. straight anymore. As for the complaints, consider the rampant disregard for the pilots contract, your claims are simply "crying, complaining and beeyaching" yourself. Theirs are valid, yours are not.

The solution is for Envoy management to honor the spirit and intent of the CBA instead of by-passing and sharpshooting every thing they can. The WHOLE CBA. If AA can hire 70 next month, Envoy can certainly let an additional 5 pilot go, especially with low block lines, part-time lines, zero-time lines and high reserve counts who fly little. Those appear to be nothing more then orchestrated excuses to defend yet another short-changing of the pilot group. At this rate though, they SHOULD be concerned about the future as anyone who doesn't have rocks in their head will be more apt to avoid Envoy with each and every action and excuse like this.

LOL ! Man, you just can't take the sales out of the salesman. Here you are, after all this, claiming that the flow WILL be larger after 2016 with no more recalls. Hey, wizard, they aren't claiming the inability to flow to more then 30 because of the recalls, but because of Envoy's supposed issues with "disruption" at ENVOY !

At least now everyone here can see exactly who and what a few of these characters really are here. It is simply undeniable.

eaglefly

Death by a thousand small cuts. It's an old trick on how to dilute labor groups contractual benefits. That along with distraction and misapplied praise.

eaglefly

Notice how that exact phrase (disrupted) was used in response to the question ? Envoy's present and future flow's are virtually certain to run at the minimum rate possible just as Letter 3 did.

moon

You cant be a pilot for envoy...... nobody who could potentially be placed that far behind schedule would see it the way you see. At best it is a grey area they are exploiting. Career earning potential goes down from being stuck at envoy an extra 2 months let alone what this has the potential of becoming to a new hire, who was promised a 5 year flow.

For a company who preaches the flow as the only thing needed to recruit new hires, I'd say they have greatly damaged their recruiting efforts based on this one month too. Keeping 5 here could mean losing 20 new hires, if they were on the fence about the flow.

Eaglepilot84

At least they're doing it now so it serves as a warning for all potential new-hires. Personally, I couldn't care less right now if envoy recruits the suppose 350 that they want for 2016. Our outstanding on-time performance and the fact that we're overstaffed clearly have no bearing on us keeping more flying in-house. This entire airlines business plan revolves around dangling carrots.

eaglefly

The fact that they are withholding to minimum flow rate considering their scheduling practices and present staffing ratios would seem to indicate they believe they will get nowhere near their desired new-hire numbers claimed. Also considering potential attrition through other carriers ramping up hiring tends to support concern of a faster contraction rate for Envoy that is being revealed.

I think this road is littered with red flags right now, even more so then just a few months ago. We shall see.............

fisherman

There are 70 total AA new hires in February. Envoy has announced that only 30 will flow in February. They are required to flow 50%, which would be 35 in this case.

The "metering" to 30/month is only allowed if it would hurt Envoy's ability to staff our flying. Clearly, since we have zero-time/part-time/below-guarantee lines, we have the ability to release the full 50%.

They could still make this right by flowing the required 50% in February; however I have no confidence in them following the contract.

50% is 50%.

snippercr

4.5 years here, live in base and bid reserve. Flew less than 5 hours this month.

Skyvector

This is why so many on eagle lounge are up in arms. Misunderstanding the contract. I don't blame you...this is a failure on the part of our association.

I'll try to explain as best I can:

We get 50% of each AA class metered to 30. Not 50% period. What does that mean in practice?

Example #1: AA hires 100 pilots in a month. Envoy gets 50% which is 50. If the company wants to meter they can do so down to 30 and no less.

Example #2: AA hires 50 pilots in a month. Envoy gets 50% which is 25. Since 25 is less than 30 the company couldn't meter even if they wanted to. All 25 would have to go.

So what's happening next month? AA is hiring 70, which gives Envoy up to 35 flows. BUT, per our contract the company can meter down to 30 and that is what they are doing. They don't have to have a good reason to do so, they can because our contract has that clause.

On the bright side, that clause means that the company has to send minimum of 30. They can't send only 5 and claim it's because of staffing issues. That would be much worse, wouldn't it? Can you imagine the fit people would be throwing if we only flowed 5 next month, 10 the month after that, then 5 again, and so on. At least that clause makes the company send no less than 30, which in a year with no hiring gaps due to recalls is 360/year.

Also, consider the following: The metered to 30 clause is ONLY for the 824 group. The Protected Pilot group gets 50% flow (after the 40th E175) with no metered to 30 clause. That means that once the PP group starts to flow, and AA hires 70 like they are doing now we will have to flow 35. They won't be able to meter down to 30. The 824 are due to finish flowing in early 2017 and the 40th E175 should be on property by then if not sooner. So yes, expect 360+ flows for 2017 and beyond. The recalls will all have come back by this summer as well so there will be no more hiring gaps either.

FlameNSky

Contractually legal or not, they are blowing their only recruitment tool over the difference of 5 pilots. Pretty stupid move.