Originally Posted by Blueskies67

It's incorrect for PSA also you can get hired outside of the flow as well.

Originally Posted by amcnd

How many flowed from Mesa?

Originally Posted by ORDinary

I see your point, but do you really expect that they'll ever pay retention bonuses to pilots they don't want to retain? That being said, we clearly have some leverage here. Should it be spent giving lifers bonuses, or improving QoL for all?

Originally Posted by SilentLurker

1st of all... Past couple years majors have paid FFD /WO deplorable wages. Its starting to rise. No new hire, no FO, no upgrade, no CA. Its all perspective man. CA should get paid like you said & their fair share of the honey pot.

Which airline do you work @? Are you a CA? Just wondering if your feeding flames in the wilderness trying to negate any, and ALL positivity occuring at Envoy (on all levels). Many on here who have 0 stake at Envoy's success or failure. Many are on Envoy Bash party waggon. Things are changing.... lets see.

I'm new @ Envoy property, i'm positive from what i hear, FO's & CA want folks coming in behind them in flood gates. The sooner that happens, the quicker they upgrade and flow & get on AA property before peak AA retirement/hiring begins.

I see 4 aimming points/target goal in the letter. All will help CA on property.

1. Higher pay to match leaders (RAH, Endeavor) to attract Recruitment.
2. Retention/Attrition, pay increase for FO's and CA (prevents 2nd yr FO from making less than newhire). CA rentention bonus/pay. To keep them from leaving jumping ship early for LLC DL, UAL, like others have said.
3. TO improve metric numbers and projections for flows so that upgrade and flow times decrease. Which helps CA move on to AA faster including 12-15yr CA.

My positive POV on the letter (fact), vs your negative interpretations.

Originally Posted by buddies8

if you want QOL for all, that fine.
No retention bonus money for anyone, and no bonus money for new hires, Just increase QOL issues and give 15% minimum pay across the board.

Originally Posted by buddies8

Actually your positive outlook is self serving and you have mentioned in your post just as much. My point was and is the letter from RW which specifically only states Captain retention bonus for those flowing to aa. I don't like splitting up the pilot group and never have. But you as a new hire are happy because it is good for you. So a positive outlook on this as you mention is good for you where elsewhere it is not. As long it self serves you.

Originally Posted by Eject

Seriously dude...40 flows a month will still take a new hire like 5 years to flow to AA. Better to go go Mesa, get your 1000 TPIC and easily get hired off the street at AA, DL, or United! The flow is a total bust. Envoy has only flowed like 800 pilot so far. That's a joke.

Originally Posted by jdflyer1999

Good luck getting hired off the street with a 1000 TPIC from Mesa at AA. AA new hire classes have only about 25-30% of the total as street hires, the rest of slots are from wholly owned's (averaging about 55-60% from Envoy). Yes it may take 6-9 years to flow, but it's nice to have that in your back pocket while your applying to DL, UA, and AA.

And PSA and PDT can only come over to AA with the flow, Envoy is able to use either method.