Bluedriver

That's why we see so many UAL and AA pilots coming to NK...

PossibleDeviation

There will always be people who have a bias for legacies. I’m not one of them. I’m in this to work when I want to and make good money doing it. That’s it. I don’t give two ****s about who signs my paycheck.

Tranquility

Reading lots of defeatist JetBlue attitudes here.... Y'all need to buck up! WE CONTROL THIS JCBA! Act like a coward and admit defeat, you'll get a **** JCBA. Profit sharing seems a sticking point for y'all... Helps to be profitable to make it worth it, especially since you've NEVER been Delta profitable, so using their formula is garbage.... I guess some of us are at an impasse when it comes to DTZ/grid rules vs. Profit sharing... We shall see what shakes out, but keep your ****ing chins up and fight for EVERYTHING, not just what you think is attainable!

BunkerF16

JetBlue has been profitable over the years. Very much so. And the pilots had a PS formula that garnered significant PS checks for people. The company changed the formula just before ALPA came on property and made attaining and meaningful amount impossible. So it's not like PS is some unicorn that isn't attainable. UA has it. DL has it. SW has it. AK has it. All better than JB's. The company just doesn't want to pay it out to pilots because then they'd have to pay it for all work groups. Wouldn't that be a shame. Paying out profits to those most responsible for them in the first place. Novel.

Tranquility

You completely missed the point of my post. We CAN have our cake and eat it too..... The merger can't happen without a JCBA. Fight for everything!

BunkerF16

I get it. But I also realize we're not going to get everything. No need to negotiate in public for something that's not going to happen for at least a year and a half, if not longer. Just because people are also trying to be rational with expectations doesn't mean they're not willing to fight for everything.

Bluedriver

Wrong. JB has had margins higher than Delta's, at times. Profit Sharing payouts per employee more closely mirror margins, and not absolute profits. Absolute profits have no scale attached to them an airline can have 2x the absolute profits, but 4x the number of employees...

So yes, a Delta like profit sharing plan, where the company is required to set aside a certain percentage of the profit (and if there is a secondary trigger, have that set at a more realistic profit point for a smaller company), is not only possible, but expected, as it's industry standard.

And the irony of your "buck up" post telling us to fight for everything YOU see as important, in the same post, you elude to how profit sharing might not be "worth it".

And none have given up on the green grid rules. One of mine and most others top priorities. 100% pure DTZ is another matter, but that's also a whole other discussion, so do not link them as if they are the same work rule, with the same benefit, and the same universal appeal.

And to echo one of my brothers previous comments to illustrate how wrong you are, it was just about 4-5 years back that we had a better profit sharing plan, and some years the checks were quite significant. And that plan was still a weak plan by industry standards. That's a Nobel term, industry STANDARD, like a good profit sharing plan IS for pilot CBAs at the JB level of the industry.

gatorbird

Know why DL management stopped asking for their PS formula back? Because the pilots/DALPA sent a clear message that it was not and will not be for sale. You think NK management didn't ask SPA ALPA the same of red/green? Stop "negotiating in public" scenarios where we (combined) DON'T have it.

Bluedriver

Especially as it relates to red/green, I agree.

Noisecanceller

I’ve been at spirit quite some time and never really used DTZ. I always figured maybe a drop to 40 with red/green intact would be essentially the same for scheduling flexibility bc I never worked under guarantee anyway.

However, this summer I am seeing new opportunities for DTZ. At my seniority my bids get weekends and holidays off so my working days are always green at the start of open time.

My kids are kind of at a sweet spot age where they are easy to travel with and also still like being around us. This summer it looks like we have nothing and everything planned at the same time. No camps or obligations tying us to home. We have pretty much decided to be a little nomadic while the kids are out of school. Visit some family, see some of our beautiful country, and some international travel. Dates are flexible. Maybe we will be home a little in between events or gone for a month or more.

I plan to fully use DTZ this summer. Start each month with a clean schedule and zero pay. As our schedule of fun evolves I’ll pick up trips in any number of our bases depending on our location at the time, perhaps maybe even some premium pay if it’s possible. I think I can still allow for tons of fun time and still credit near guarantee working out of multiple bases as I see fit. Visit a national park maybe pop out for an easy two day. Visit SIL in another spirit domicile and gab a couple turns while wife and kids are visiting. Maybe work a week straight after a two week Europe trip without vacation.

Point being I never really used fully the DTZ and especially now bc my seniority gets nearly everything I want in my bid it wasn’t a huge priority to me. Red/green was never up for debate. Now I’m seeing the DTZ potential