[QUOTE=sweetholyjesus;2105515]Gojet? I bet you couldn't say that with a straight face

But seriously, bad examples. And you can't say "well it worked there but what about here.." Simple fact is, it worked. The problem with some other airlines is they wait until the very last minute (or too late) and the effect of increased pay are outweighed by poor conditions and reputation. Also, there are more considerations when joining an airline than just pay. I wouldn't go to Gojet, for example, for fear of tainting my certificate/record. I hear they have some awful practices over there...

AAG is very patient when it comes to giving out money, which is why the WOs are still at the bottom. They know there are still people out there willing to fly for less. Business-wise, it makes perfect sense. Pilots shouldn't be happy about it, however.[/QUOTE

Never said I was happy about it but it's an unfortunate reality. The reason I asked about the other places filling classes is because if places offering better pay are not getting people that just tells management it's not worth it. Since they would have to offer the pay to all three WOs it would be a significant amount of money for all three to match Endeavor Pay. Doug will start flying the planes before he does that. Also I'm still thinking AA will just replace their 50 seaters with bigger planes slowly making 2 trips in a 900 instead of 3 in a 200 for example. They could reduce their fleet by about 1/4 atleast while not losing any passenger lift and needing less pilots. Just a thought though.

 

Aww poor little Dougie can't afford it huh? You're giving a lot of reasons why the company can/could pay less. The company can/could pay pilots to work for McDonalds wages (if they aren't already!). But you forget that the pilots have a stake in it as well. You seem to have a lot of sympathy for a company that raked in BILLIONS of dollars last year..They can afford to pay what is necessary to attract pilots..

 

Not giving in reasons why they could pay less just giving reasons why they won't pay more. There is a difference. Pilots do have stake in it to the extent of the leverage they have. Current PSA pilots have no leverage for the multiple reasons I've listed 50 times today. No sympathy for AA just the reality of the situation. Nike makes billions every year. They have sweat shops. Do I have sympathy for them? Not in the least bit. Does Nike still have sweat shops and make billions? Sure does. I don't agree with AAs view towards its pilots any more than any one else. Doesn't mean I don't understand the way they do business.

 

As I've stated before, I'm not even 100% sure that management sees a reason to raise pay when Mesa is filling classes and other airlines that do have good first year pay are not. I think Trans States had 2 in a recent class and their first year FO pay is above $35 /hour. I think they'll just keep offering bigger bonuses until they are blue in the face. And I have a hunch once we finally hear about the critical pay arbitration, it will end up meaning more money for all of us.

 

This is my thought as well. I doubt we will see anything at all until they figure out the arbitration. If they owe us a lot of money from that I'm even more sure we won't see raises for current pilots.

 

I was referring to your current pay rates as being "paid less". Simple misunderstanding. I doubt Nike employees are unionized. If you really think PSA pilots have no leverage, especially now that staffing is affecting your growth, I would say that people with your mindset got you where you are today. You had leverage before, and you have it now. Don't let the company's excuses of "good business" keep you from getting what you deserve. For darn sure don't make the excuses for them....

 

So say management gives new hire bigger and bigger bonuses to get people in the door as they are currently doing. What do PSA pilots do leverage wise to stop this and make it so they get money as well?

 

Attrition will care that. We know PSA pilots as a group don't have the backbone to fight for themselves.

 

Just remember he said it, not me
Anything man. Anything is better than just sitting there calling it the "reality" of business. The reality is you wont get jack if you sit there under management's boot complaining but doing nothing. Maybe start by petitioning to your fabled PSA MEC to stand up for the pilots they are supposed to be representing???

 

The same thing I've been saying for months.

SAP 75, No Opentime, No Junior man!

The beginning of this month was the first time we've really had the opportunity to make them feel the pain of the staffing shortage and from what I could tell nothing happened. How many people jumped at the critical pay or accepted the junior man?

People keep saying we are adequately staffed and while that may be true; attrition is also currently outpacing recruitment. Even if the bonus somehow helps recruitment it will still be 2-3 months before those new hires will be on the line. That gives us all summer to demonstrate how retaining the pilots currently on property benefits the company.

All I'm saying is maybe we all take a well deserved summer vacation, and perhaps there will be more incentive to work hard over the holidays.

SAP 75, No Opentime, No Junior Man