Perhaps you can expand on this? I hear this attitude frequently from CA's on the line which worries me. Exactly WHY should we NOT get paid what Delta does? Usually, the answers I get are related to our ULCC business model. The model that upper management has chosen to make the highest profits they can is of absolutely no concern to me. If they could make more with First Class and all the perks, they'd do it.

The ULCC business model incorporates cost reductions where they can control it. Mostly, it is limited investment in infrastructure, and higher density seating at the cost of pax comfort. But they cannot control some basic airline business costs. They do not purchase main landing tires, for example, for a discount on account of being a ULCC. We don't get a discount on fuel because we're a ULCC. Pilots here need to adopt the mindset that they do not get discounted pilots either. We are as much a cost of doing business as fuel and tires.

We fly A321's with more pax than industry 757's. We need to be paid industry standard wages for the airframes we fly. I think we work harder than Delta Pilots. Our lack of investment in infrastructure and ground handling means we have to be ultra alert, and are regularly catching mistakes that could lead to FAA violations. The regularity of passenger disturbances puts plenty at risk as well, and we're generally not getting paid when these events occur.

How management makes the money behind our paychecks is their job, and they're doing that fairly well when you consider our astronomically high profit margins. I personally have no intentions of giving Franke a discount on my labor for any reason.





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@A319: not calling you stupid. I've flown with plenty of very smart, great guys who didn't know various parts of the contract well enough to know of a potential violation. There's lots of "quiet" violations that go on, such as not processing open time within the contractual time limit (which happened on a pretty massive scale during the last winter meltdown).

Beautifully written, SeaRider.

Amen, Searider. Couldn't agree more. I think it's part of the "little ol' Frontier" attitude that has led to that sentiment. And management is exploiting that attitude on our backs. We have always been the underdog, and some have resigned that there is no way to achieve the higher rates that we deserve.

Very eloquently stated.

It was beautifully written, but if they could get tires that worked just as hard for half the price wouldn't they? See my point? And therein lies the reason you, and I, are concerned SeaRider.

What should be often becomes irrelevant when reality is at play.

I hope you are on our NC, SeaRider. That is a fantastic post.

This needs to be on everyone's mind from now until the TA.

Hi all-
Can someone shed some light on the commutability of the schedules? Typical days off, trip length, days off between trips? I'd be commuting from PHL.

I have a little info on your commuter policy (list on two flights arriving 1hr before show) , but I assume no hotels provided.

I have an interview on the 16th and would love to have a better handle on this issue before showing up.

Thanks for any info.

Very well said, SeaRider!

I am in no way advocating for a discount pay. I think our pay should be in line with what our peers are paid. Delta is not our peer. Spirit, Allegiant and jetBlue are our peers.

Also, everyone demanding a contract NOW is unreasonable, we have only been in negotiations for a few months and our current contract just became amendable this month. I want a new contract more than anyone, and it will happen. But the "negotiating" game has to play out first.

Also, for those talking about the "old attitude at Frontier"... If it weren't for us more senior pilots at Frontier taking pay cuts and doing everything we did to save the company, we wouldn't even be having this conversation now because the airline would not exist. So next time you fly with a more senior pilot, thank them for sacrificing their QOL and taking pay cuts so that the airline survived long enough to hire you.

I'd say most trips are commutable on at least one side, and many are on both. Certainly some are not.

Pretty good mix of pairing lengths. 4-days and 3-days most common. Looks like average lines are currently around 14-15 days off, built normally right at 75 hours. Not the most efficient. Lots of red eyes.