Spirit of NKS
02-03-2015 | 02:43 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2012
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"toward guarantee" and "above guarantee" are pretty standard contractual phrases. A simple search shows "above guarantee" in our current CBA no less than 8 times. Do you find you have problems in those cases? 72 hours is our minimum guarantee, if your line value is higher, that's now your guarantee, with only a few contractual provisions that could possibly lower it. 10 hours above guarantee, contractually means above YOUR guarantee, whether that's the min or your line value, just like open time flying, drug testing, or rescheduling, just as some examples, already says in our CBA.
The amount of assumptions and opinion being passed as fact to assert one's position on the LOA is getting a bit out of hand here. I can understand being for or against this LOA, it certainly has its pros and cons, but many that are accusing "scare tactics" by the company are partaking in a little bit of their own as well. Read the LOA, manuals, and CBA to form your decision, not what someone, on either side of the argument, posts on the internet.
The amount of assumptions and opinion being passed as fact to assert one's position on the LOA is getting a bit out of hand here. I can understand being for or against this LOA, it certainly has its pros and cons, but many that are accusing "scare tactics" by the company are partaking in a little bit of their own as well. Read the LOA, manuals, and CBA to form your decision, not what someone, on either side of the argument, posts on the internet.
Last edited by WelcomeToBen; 02-03-2015 at 02:57 PM.
02-03-2015 | 03:24 PM
Boost is Life
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 98
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From: In the Garage
02-03-2015 | 04:03 PM
On Reserve
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 11
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"toward guarantee" and "above guarantee" are pretty standard contractual phrases. A simple search shows "above guarantee" in our current CBA no less than 8 times. Do you find you have problems in those cases? 72 hours is our minimum guarantee, if your line value is higher, that's now your guarantee, with only a few contractual provisions that could possibly lower it. 10 hours above guarantee, contractually means above YOUR guarantee, whether that's the min or your line value, just like open time flying, drug testing, or rescheduling, just as some examples, already says in our CBA.
The amount of assumptions and opinion being passed as fact to assert one's position on the LOA is getting a bit out of hand here. I can understand being for or against this LOA, it certainly has its pros and cons, but many that are accusing "scare tactics" by the company are partaking in a little bit of their own as well. Read the LOA, manuals, and CBA to form your decision, not what someone, on either side of the argument, posts on the internet.
The amount of assumptions and opinion being passed as fact to assert one's position on the LOA is getting a bit out of hand here. I can understand being for or against this LOA, it certainly has its pros and cons, but many that are accusing "scare tactics" by the company are partaking in a little bit of their own as well. Read the LOA, manuals, and CBA to form your decision, not what someone, on either side of the argument, posts on the internet.
Thank you Eric! The only adjustment to your post I'd make is in your last paragraph, by redacting "in a little bit of their own". Otherwise, very well said. Been tempted to write the same thing over the last few weeks but haven't bothered.
The only comment I'd make is this: whenever the subject of CBA talks has been raised on this board over the last month, the hew and cry of the diehards has been "industry leading or shove it!"
Now that we have an industry leading adjustment to our CBA on the table and up for a vote, their tune changes. Now suddenly an industry leading adjustment is a 'turd sandwich'. Ya gotta laugh. (at least I am)
Is this LOA perfect? Hell no. But considering that Ipads ARE going to be adopted by Spirit and the current g/s trip conflict paradigm is going to change, do we have industry standard protections regarding care/use of the ipad, industry leading compensation, and in general are we better off than the rest of the industry with this LOA? The answer is yes.
If anyone is waiting for a perfect TA to vote yes on you're going to be waiting a long, long time. Pretty sure it hasn't happened yet and I seriously doubt Spirit is going to be industry leading in that regard.
02-03-2015 | 04:40 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 209
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From: A320 captain
So based on what I'm reading above, it looks like the company can only force one day a month of DL on us for 8 hours... Why is everyone scared that they're going to force two days on us even if the LOA doesn't pass? Clearly, they can't..
Also, the LOA states 10 hours above guarantee.. So if I have an 82 hour line, is it 10 hours above the 82...?? Or 10 hours above 72, which makes 82 after the 10 hours and now I just did DL for free??
Still, a no vote!!
Also, the LOA states 10 hours above guarantee.. So if I have an 82 hour line, is it 10 hours above the 82...?? Or 10 hours above 72, which makes 82 after the 10 hours and now I just did DL for free??
Still, a no vote!!
1 day in your grace early month and 1 day in your due month.
1+1=2
02-03-2015 | 04:41 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2014
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Thank you Eric! The only adjustment to your post I'd make is in your last paragraph, by redacting "in a little bit of their own". Otherwise, very well said. Been tempted to write the same thing over the last few weeks but haven't bothered.
The only comment I'd make is this: whenever the subject of CBA talks has been raised on this board over the last month, the hew and cry of the diehards has been "industry leading or shove it!"
Now that we have an industry leading adjustment to our CBA on the table and up for a vote, their tune changes. Now suddenly an industry leading adjustment is a 'turd sandwich'. Ya gotta laugh. (at least I am)
Is this LOA perfect? Hell no. But considering that Ipads ARE going to be adopted by Spirit and the current g/s trip conflict paradigm is going to change, do we have industry standard protections regarding care/use of the ipad, industry leading compensation, and in general are we better off than the rest of the industry with this LOA? The answer is yes.
If anyone is waiting for a perfect TA to vote yes on you're going to be waiting a long, long time. Pretty sure it hasn't happened yet and I seriously doubt Spirit is going to be industry leading in that regard.
The only comment I'd make is this: whenever the subject of CBA talks has been raised on this board over the last month, the hew and cry of the diehards has been "industry leading or shove it!"
Now that we have an industry leading adjustment to our CBA on the table and up for a vote, their tune changes. Now suddenly an industry leading adjustment is a 'turd sandwich'. Ya gotta laugh. (at least I am)
Is this LOA perfect? Hell no. But considering that Ipads ARE going to be adopted by Spirit and the current g/s trip conflict paradigm is going to change, do we have industry standard protections regarding care/use of the ipad, industry leading compensation, and in general are we better off than the rest of the industry with this LOA? The answer is yes.
If anyone is waiting for a perfect TA to vote yes on you're going to be waiting a long, long time. Pretty sure it hasn't happened yet and I seriously doubt Spirit is going to be industry leading in that regard.
You had me up until the industry leading compensation on this loa. This loa will not give us industry leading compensation it may give us industry leading hours but not dollars.
Ex.
Delta 3rd 320 FO
4hrs x 124 =496 per day
Spirit
5 hrs x 78= 390 per day
I still haven't heard a valid reason to sign this loa. We are 6 months from an amendable contract, we get very little from this deal and give the company a huge gain. It doesn't make sense to me.
02-03-2015 | 04:56 PM
ULTP-Ultra Low Tier Pilot
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,228
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Im sorry Jason, but the irony of your signature on here....
"Evil is perpetrated in the secrecy of darkness while good is done in the open."
So lets talk about the MEC, which you are a voting member of, and the total lack of communication from them as we stand months away from Amendable date, currently now inside 6 months.
I reached out to my rep, was emailed back and said to expect a call, nothing sense. It is not up to each member to call their rep personally when the entire pilot group needs, deserves, and wants this information. 1 lousy survey month ago, and thats it.
Im sorry but perhaps you should be more concerned about the lack of "good being done in the open" with MEC communication, instead of that on this forum board.
"Evil is perpetrated in the secrecy of darkness while good is done in the open."
So lets talk about the MEC, which you are a voting member of, and the total lack of communication from them as we stand months away from Amendable date, currently now inside 6 months.
I reached out to my rep, was emailed back and said to expect a call, nothing sense. It is not up to each member to call their rep personally when the entire pilot group needs, deserves, and wants this information. 1 lousy survey month ago, and thats it.
Im sorry but perhaps you should be more concerned about the lack of "good being done in the open" with MEC communication, instead of that on this forum board.
02-03-2015 | 06:32 PM
Banned
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,929
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From: A-320
Im sorry Jason, but the irony of your signature on here....
"Evil is perpetrated in the secrecy of darkness while good is done in the open."
So lets talk about the MEC, which you are a voting member of, and the total lack of communication from them as we stand months away from Amendable date, currently now inside 6 months.
I reached out to my rep, was emailed back and said to expect a call, nothing sense. It is not up to each member to call their rep personally when the entire pilot group needs, deserves, and wants this information. 1 lousy survey month ago, and thats it.
Im sorry but perhaps you should be more concerned about the lack of "good being done in the open" with MEC communication, instead of that on this forum board.
"Evil is perpetrated in the secrecy of darkness while good is done in the open."
So lets talk about the MEC, which you are a voting member of, and the total lack of communication from them as we stand months away from Amendable date, currently now inside 6 months.
I reached out to my rep, was emailed back and said to expect a call, nothing sense. It is not up to each member to call their rep personally when the entire pilot group needs, deserves, and wants this information. 1 lousy survey month ago, and thats it.
Im sorry but perhaps you should be more concerned about the lack of "good being done in the open" with MEC communication, instead of that on this forum board.
I agree, a good buddy of mine, also a P2P guy, emailed Amangero twice.......and nothing, no response at all. It's really disappointing
02-03-2015 | 06:36 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 173
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You had me up until the industry leading compensation on this loa. This loa will not give us industry leading compensation it may give us industry leading hours but not dollars.
Ex.
Delta 3rd 320 FO
4hrs x 124 =496 per day
Spirit
5 hrs x 78= 390 per day
I still haven't heard a valid reason to sign this loa. We are 6 months from an amendable contract, we get very little from this deal and give the company a huge gain. It doesn't make sense to me.
Ex.
Delta 3rd 320 FO
4hrs x 124 =496 per day
Spirit
5 hrs x 78= 390 per day
I still haven't heard a valid reason to sign this loa. We are 6 months from an amendable contract, we get very little from this deal and give the company a huge gain. It doesn't make sense to me.
Lock in the distance learning agreement now, handle the pay rates during contract negotiations.
02-03-2015 | 07:03 PM
Boost is Life
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
From: In the Garage
So delta should take paycuts because they are the top of the industry just as long as they stay on top? That's what your saying.
This LOA is a staffing reduction in perpetuity. It's not just a concession one time. It's the concession that keeps on giving while we grow. How this is not understood by the entire MEC and negotiating committee blows my mind. Let the company do whatever the want within the constraints of out current contract if we vote it down. I'm not voluntarily going to hand over a concession. Never! Ever! If they want it they are going to have to take it.
This LOA is a staffing reduction in perpetuity. It's not just a concession one time. It's the concession that keeps on giving while we grow. How this is not understood by the entire MEC and negotiating committee blows my mind. Let the company do whatever the want within the constraints of out current contract if we vote it down. I'm not voluntarily going to hand over a concession. Never! Ever! If they want it they are going to have to take it.
If I didn't get the information out I'd be some ahole for not getting it out there. So when I do share what's coming I'm using scare tactics. Just relax a bit. Might help with that ol blood pressure.
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