Atlas Air Hiring
12-29-2014, 08:34 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Position: 747 CA
Posts: 344
I second what Globemaster just said.
It really is a damned shame. This could easily be the best flying job in the world. There is plenty of money to go around and much left on the table due to greed and ego.
Atlas was at one time the most profitable airline in the world, and they continue to make a profit in spite of themselves. Of course, stealing a $5 breakfast helps...
It really is a damned shame. This could easily be the best flying job in the world. There is plenty of money to go around and much left on the table due to greed and ego.
Atlas was at one time the most profitable airline in the world, and they continue to make a profit in spite of themselves. Of course, stealing a $5 breakfast helps...
12-29-2014, 08:48 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by Globemaster2827
I'll bite...
1. Retirement is about 1/3rd of an industry standard contract.
2. Hourly pay rate is about 75-80% of industry standard.
3. Due to work rules you'll probably only log 80% of the credit hours you would with an industry standard contract.
4. Vacation, getting sick, and even having to take a checkride will all mean that you get guarantee that month.... Guarantee is about 75-80% of industry standard (62 hours).
5. You only get 14 days of vacation a year which is probably half industry standard... Or less.
6. Given that you leave out and are gone for 17 days you'll spend more time at work then you will at a Legacy or Southwest.
7. Unlimited schedule changes will reduce your pay by probably 5%... Possibly more.
8. Profit sharing excludes more than half of the profit. This means that our profit sharing is probably worth about 40% of an industry standard profit sharing - many years much less. Last year my profit sharing was $500.
Given all of that I figure that Atlas pays 60% of what you're paid at a job that people are leaving here for meaning American, Delta, United, Southwest, UPS, or FedEx. While getting compensated at a FAR less rate you'll certainly spend much more time at work. I love Atlas and it's a great place to work but much like they've got a business to run, I have a family to worry about.
1. Retirement is about 1/3rd of an industry standard contract.
2. Hourly pay rate is about 75-80% of industry standard.
3. Due to work rules you'll probably only log 80% of the credit hours you would with an industry standard contract.
4. Vacation, getting sick, and even having to take a checkride will all mean that you get guarantee that month.... Guarantee is about 75-80% of industry standard (62 hours).
5. You only get 14 days of vacation a year which is probably half industry standard... Or less.
6. Given that you leave out and are gone for 17 days you'll spend more time at work then you will at a Legacy or Southwest.
7. Unlimited schedule changes will reduce your pay by probably 5%... Possibly more.
8. Profit sharing excludes more than half of the profit. This means that our profit sharing is probably worth about 40% of an industry standard profit sharing - many years much less. Last year my profit sharing was $500.
Given all of that I figure that Atlas pays 60% of what you're paid at a job that people are leaving here for meaning American, Delta, United, Southwest, UPS, or FedEx. While getting compensated at a FAR less rate you'll certainly spend much more time at work. I love Atlas and it's a great place to work but much like they've got a business to run, I have a family to worry about.
12-29-2014, 09:23 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: B767 CA
Posts: 1,100
Originally Posted by Globemaster2827
I'll bite...
1. Retirement is about 1/3rd of an industry standard contract.
2. Hourly pay rate is about 75-80% of industry standard.
3. Due to work rules you'll probably only log 80% of the credit hours you would with an industry standard contract.
4. Vacation, getting sick, and even having to take a checkride will all mean that you get guarantee that month.... Guarantee is about 75-80% of industry standard (62 hours).
5. You only get 14 days of vacation a year which is probably half industry standard... Or less.
6. Given that you leave out and are gone for 17 days you'll spend more time at work then you will at a Legacy or Southwest.
7. Unlimited schedule changes will reduce your pay by probably 5%... Possibly more.
8. Profit sharing excludes more than half of the profit. This means that our profit sharing is probably worth about 40% of an industry standard profit sharing - many years much less. Last year my profit sharing was $500.
Given all of that I figure that Atlas pays 60% of what you're paid at a job that people are leaving here for meaning American, Delta, United, Southwest, UPS, or FedEx. While getting compensated at a FAR less rate you'll certainly spend much more time at work. I love Atlas and it's a great place to work but much like they've got a business to run, I have a family to worry about.
1. Retirement is about 1/3rd of an industry standard contract.
2. Hourly pay rate is about 75-80% of industry standard.
3. Due to work rules you'll probably only log 80% of the credit hours you would with an industry standard contract.
4. Vacation, getting sick, and even having to take a checkride will all mean that you get guarantee that month.... Guarantee is about 75-80% of industry standard (62 hours).
5. You only get 14 days of vacation a year which is probably half industry standard... Or less.
6. Given that you leave out and are gone for 17 days you'll spend more time at work then you will at a Legacy or Southwest.
7. Unlimited schedule changes will reduce your pay by probably 5%... Possibly more.
8. Profit sharing excludes more than half of the profit. This means that our profit sharing is probably worth about 40% of an industry standard profit sharing - many years much less. Last year my profit sharing was $500.
Given all of that I figure that Atlas pays 60% of what you're paid at a job that people are leaving here for meaning American, Delta, United, Southwest, UPS, or FedEx. While getting compensated at a FAR less rate you'll certainly spend much more time at work. I love Atlas and it's a great place to work but much like they've got a business to run, I have a family to worry about.
Why are you still at Atlas?...
I was the first person in early 2014 to publicly state on this thread that I could not in good conscience recommend Atlas any longer...BUT, I have since tried to offer a balanced view of life at Atlas.
I agree with all the points you make, but your post is still unfinished (IMHO) as it only presents the "squeaky-wheel" side of the situation here and it misrepresents this thread.
If all you (collective you, not personal) want to do is paint a bleak picture and whine, go someplace else, and start another thread. Otherwise, let us all aspire to at least give a complete picture, and present the good and the bad.
I am not at all saying that things are peachy at Atlas, but...
12-29-2014, 10:31 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: Knuckle-dragging line pilot
Posts: 943
Originally Posted by 744driver
If all you (collective you, not personal) want to do is paint a bleak picture and whine, go someplace else, and start another thread. Otherwise, let us all aspire to at least give a complete picture, and present the good and the bad...
12-29-2014, 02:08 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Position: 74FO
Posts: 31
Why are most people leaving? Because for the past two years things have been presented as roses on this board. The real problems with the contract have never been explained. Prospective new hires need to actually understand the reality of working here (good and bad) before they start or else they'll just continue to leave. People deserve to understand the contract they are agreeing to before they agree to it. Or do we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it?
12-29-2014, 02:25 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 617
Originally Posted by BugZmasher
Why are most people leaving? Because for the past two years things have been presented as roses on this board. The real problems with the contract have never been explained. Prospective new hires need to actually understand the reality of working here (good and bad) before they start or else they'll just continue to leave. People deserve to understand the contract they are agreeing to before they agree to it. Or do we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it?
-Long-term pay at a Legacy vs. Atlas
-Retirement (just matching here vs. fairly high direct 401k contribution at others)
-Schedule flexibility. (no trading/dropping, only picking up open time. No possible way to modify your schedule after it's awarded. Plus some vacation and training scheduling issues.)
-People that are "stuck." Many 767 pilots that are senior to 747 pilots but are seat-locked are losing lots of pay. Also ANC 747 is the junior base on that side and people lose days off trying to get up there and back for multiple trips(contrary to popular belief, most trips are NOT 17 day lines).
Again, there are a great deal of little contractual issues that all add up, but overall I think those are the main reasons you are seeing people leave.
12-29-2014, 02:47 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 747RJ
Posts: 441
Originally Posted by KYTBRD
You have to be senior enough around here to have a strike fund and be willing to work more than 17 days. 
Strike fund and Junior FO don't go hand in hand around here when folks are being reduced to min guarantee and can't get an OT trip on VX days. Not a complaint but and honest observation.
Strike fund and Junior FO don't go hand in hand around here when folks are being reduced to min guarantee and can't get an OT trip on VX days. Not a complaint but and honest observation.
In civilian world you have to have a contingency fund.
I understand how tough it is, however it is a lot less tough than people making less than 20k/yr in the regionals starting a contingency fund.
The great thing is that if you have one, and you never need it, you've had a successful career; no strikes, no furloughs, no 6 month medical vacation. During negotiations when management inevitably takes hostages, you are more apt to stand strong because you can weather the storm.
You've been here long enough you should already have one started. If nothing else, it'll pad that first year pay at another airline with a better contact.
12-29-2014, 02:50 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 747RJ
Posts: 441
Originally Posted by Globemaster2827
I'll bite...
1. Retirement is about 1/3rd of an industry standard contract.
2. Hourly pay rate is about 75-80% of industry standard.
3. Due to work rules you'll probably only log 80% of the credit hours you would with an industry standard contract.
4. Vacation, getting sick, and even having to take a checkride will all mean that you get guarantee that month.... Guarantee is about 75-80% of industry standard (62 hours).
5. You only get 14 days of vacation a year which is probably half industry standard... Or less.
6. Given that you leave out and are gone for 17 days you'll spend more time at work then you will at a Legacy or Southwest.
7. Unlimited schedule changes will reduce your pay by probably 5%... Possibly more.
8. Profit sharing excludes more than half of the profit. This means that our profit sharing is probably worth about 40% of an industry standard profit sharing - many years much less. Last year my profit sharing was $500.
Given all of that I figure that Atlas pays 60% of what you're paid at a job that people are leaving here for meaning American, Delta, United, Southwest, UPS, or FedEx. While getting compensated at a FAR less rate you'll certainly spend much more time at work. I love Atlas and it's a great place to work but much like they've got a business to run, I have a family to worry about.
1. Retirement is about 1/3rd of an industry standard contract.
2. Hourly pay rate is about 75-80% of industry standard.
3. Due to work rules you'll probably only log 80% of the credit hours you would with an industry standard contract.
4. Vacation, getting sick, and even having to take a checkride will all mean that you get guarantee that month.... Guarantee is about 75-80% of industry standard (62 hours).
5. You only get 14 days of vacation a year which is probably half industry standard... Or less.
6. Given that you leave out and are gone for 17 days you'll spend more time at work then you will at a Legacy or Southwest.
7. Unlimited schedule changes will reduce your pay by probably 5%... Possibly more.
8. Profit sharing excludes more than half of the profit. This means that our profit sharing is probably worth about 40% of an industry standard profit sharing - many years much less. Last year my profit sharing was $500.
Given all of that I figure that Atlas pays 60% of what you're paid at a job that people are leaving here for meaning American, Delta, United, Southwest, UPS, or FedEx. While getting compensated at a FAR less rate you'll certainly spend much more time at work. I love Atlas and it's a great place to work but much like they've got a business to run, I have a family to worry about.
No matter what the loyalist may say, that post is a dot on assessment of the state of things.
12-29-2014, 02:52 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,218
Originally Posted by 744driver
Notwithstanding your last sentence, and no disrespect intended but just wondering...
Why are you still at Atlas?...
I was the first person in early 2014 to publicly state on this thread that I could not in good conscience recommend Atlas any longer...BUT, I have since tried to offer a balanced view of life at Atlas.
I agree with all the points you make, but your post is still unfinished (IMHO) as it only presents the "squeaky-wheel" side of the situation here and it misrepresents this thread.
If all you (collective you, not personal) want to do is paint a bleak picture and whine, go someplace else, and start another thread. Otherwise, let us all aspire to at least give a complete picture, and present the good and the bad.
I am not at all saying that things are peachy at Atlas, but...
Why are you still at Atlas?...
I was the first person in early 2014 to publicly state on this thread that I could not in good conscience recommend Atlas any longer...BUT, I have since tried to offer a balanced view of life at Atlas.
I agree with all the points you make, but your post is still unfinished (IMHO) as it only presents the "squeaky-wheel" side of the situation here and it misrepresents this thread.
If all you (collective you, not personal) want to do is paint a bleak picture and whine, go someplace else, and start another thread. Otherwise, let us all aspire to at least give a complete picture, and present the good and the bad.
I am not at all saying that things are peachy at Atlas, but...
Another way of saying "It's a business for them and I have a family to think about" is maybe putting it this way... Unless they fix their contract many of the young FOs will leave IF offered a job that offers far less work for more pay and retirement. I haven't been offered that job but like most FOs there's going to be a good chance that happens. When/If it does I'll be gone. I've yet to hear about one of our FOs being offered a job at one of the companies that I mentioned that turned it down. I'm not bitter at all and neither were most of the guys who left. I love Atlas, but I'll be gone as soon as I'm offered that job, unless they decide they care about us enough to compensate us fairly.
If the company looked at my job as anything more than a number our contract would be fixed tomorrow so that people would stop leaving. Leadership flat out doesn't care. They'd rather see people like me leave and have themselves make more money. They've stated to our FOs who went to Purchase last Spring that "They have a stack of resumes a mile high at HR." To me that says what all of us know. Things won't change unless airplanes stop moving. They only care about me leaving if so many of us leave that they can't keep up with training. I'm stating here that I love the job but since they value me so little, I'll make the best decision for my family if/when an Industry Standard opportunity presents itself.
12-29-2014, 03:45 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: B767 CA
Posts: 1,100
Originally Posted by JerrySpringer
Accurate and well put.
No matter what the loyalist may say, that post is a dot on assessment of the state of things.
No matter what the loyalist may say, that post is a dot on assessment of the state of things.
Asking for "fair and balanced" hardly means I am loyalist.
BTW, Globemaster has since answered in a "fair and balanced" and thoughtful answer rather than name-calling. I was only asking for all of us to be honest in the first place!!
And yes, calling me a "loyalist" is offensive and a great insult to me!!
Last edited by 744driver; 12-29-2014 at 04:20 PM.
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