DL Hiring: New Process
07-08-2021 | 08:45 AM
#41
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Comparing UPT to a CFI check is ridiculous. My CFI check ride (before I went to UPT) was harder than any checkride I've ever done, military or civilian. 8 hour oral and a flight with a gruff old dude that made the biggest hammer at Sheppard seem like a santa. Pilot training was tougher, but only because it was a year long event with ridiculously high standards, whereas a CFI ride was a single event. I'd have taken any of the 10 checkrides at Sheppard over my CFI check any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
I do agree with Drum on the sign. Nothing wrong with the sign, every company with pilots should have a similar sign hanging over the entrances to their ops. It's not so much arrogance as it is attempting to push a mindset of professionalism and excellence.
I do agree with Drum on the sign. Nothing wrong with the sign, every company with pilots should have a similar sign hanging over the entrances to their ops. It's not so much arrogance as it is attempting to push a mindset of professionalism and excellence.
07-08-2021 | 08:46 AM
#42
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Joined: Apr 2020
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Did UPT. And I did civilian CFI before the military equivalency test was available. UPT was way harder but for a lot of different reasons - one year long, evaluated every minute even when off duty, little chance for do overs, volume of information etc. But the CFI oral and check ride were actually hard too. CFI you could take as long as you wanted or needed to prepare and if you fail just do it again. No limit on do overs.
07-08-2021 | 09:04 AM
#44
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Joined: Jul 2013
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Likes: 1,039
Comparing UPT to a CFI check is ridiculous. My CFI check ride (before I went to UPT) was harder than any checkride I've ever done, military or civilian. 8 hour oral and a flight with a gruff old dude that made the biggest hammer at Sheppard seem like a santa. Pilot training was tougher, but only because it was a year long event with ridiculously high standards, whereas a CFI ride was a single event. I'd have taken any of the 10 checkrides at Sheppard over my CFI check any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
I do agree with Drum on the sign. Nothing wrong with the sign, every company with pilots should have a similar sign hanging over the entrances to their ops. It's not so much arrogance as it is attempting to push a mindset of professionalism and excellence.
I do agree with Drum on the sign. Nothing wrong with the sign, every company with pilots should have a similar sign hanging over the entrances to their ops. It's not so much arrogance as it is attempting to push a mindset of professionalism and excellence.
I certainly would have chosen UPT over the civilian route because one, while difficult, includes a pretty good paycheck, lodging, a massive support system and a incredible experience/resume booster. The other is incredible expensive and only gives you the right to be poor for the next 2-5 years(sometimes going a week or more without making a dime) flying, at times questionably airworthy aircraft that no one bats an eye about when trying to get a job.
07-08-2021 | 09:46 AM
#45
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Joined: Sep 2016
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Gawd. Every time I walk thru those doors into the JFK crew room I cringe at that sign. We need humble confidence. Humble like you said, to know we must always learn to be better at our profession. We aren’t the best, that’s an unattainable goal. Confident, knowing that as a humble team we will strive for the highest level of safety.
07-08-2021 | 09:56 AM
#47
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Joined: Feb 2009
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From: Fetal
There is no reason to go back to the I'm a molecule, take me thru a pack/build an airplane days. None.
Data shows that Air Travel has never been safer than it is today. That's how big of an impact CRM and Standard Operating Procedures has been.
Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
Data shows that Air Travel has never been safer than it is today. That's how big of an impact CRM and Standard Operating Procedures has been.
Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
I didn’t say we needed to go back to that. I’m saying the systems training we get now is inadequate. There’s quite a gap between the molecular-journey method and the open-book systems validation. The operation is surviving on the sheer experience of the pilots. That experience level is decreasing rapidly, and I think we need to do something about our training or we risk degrading that level of safety we’ve worked hard to achieve.
CRM & SOP only take you so far. That’s why you see a higher accident rate in the rest of the world. We had accidents with robust systems knowledge & deficient SOP/CRM, they often have the opposite.
As I said the first time, we need better systems training, and the only thing stopping it is money.
07-08-2021 | 09:59 AM
#48
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Joined: Dec 2007
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I didn’t say we needed to go back to that. I’m saying the systems training we get now is inadequate. There’s quite a gap between the molecular-journey method and the open-book systems validation. The operation is surviving on the sheer experience of the pilots. That experience level is decreasing rapidly, and I think we need to do something about our training or we risk degrading that level of safety we’ve worked hard to achieve.
CRM & SOP only take you so far. That’s why you see a higher accident rate in the rest of the world. We had accidents with robust systems knowledge & deficient SOP/CRM, they often have the opposite.
As I said the first time, we need better systems training, and the only thing stopping it is money.
CRM & SOP only take you so far. That’s why you see a higher accident rate in the rest of the world. We had accidents with robust systems knowledge & deficient SOP/CRM, they often have the opposite.
As I said the first time, we need better systems training, and the only thing stopping it is money.
Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
07-08-2021 | 10:20 AM
#49
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,576
Likes: 33
Comparing UPT to a CFI check is ridiculous. My CFI check ride (before I went to UPT) was harder than any checkride I've ever done, military or civilian. 8 hour oral and a flight with a gruff old dude that made the biggest hammer at Sheppard seem like a santa. Pilot training was tougher, but only because it was a year long event with ridiculously high standards, whereas a CFI ride was a single event. I'd have taken any of the 10 checkrides at Sheppard over my CFI check any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
I do agree with Drum on the sign. Nothing wrong with the sign, every company with pilots should have a similar sign hanging over the entrances to their ops. It's not so much arrogance as it is attempting to push a mindset of professionalism and excellence.
I do agree with Drum on the sign. Nothing wrong with the sign, every company with pilots should have a similar sign hanging over the entrances to their ops. It's not so much arrogance as it is attempting to push a mindset of professionalism and excellence.
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