Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Major > Delta
DL Hiring: New Process >

DL Hiring: New Process

Notices

DL Hiring: New Process

Old 07-08-2021, 08:45 AM
  #41  
Super Moderator
 
crewdawg's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,497
Default

Comparing UPT to a CFI check is ridiculous. My CFI check ride (before I went to UPT) was harder than any checkride I've ever done, military or civilian. 8 hour oral and a flight with a gruff old dude that made the biggest hammer at Sheppard seem like a santa. Pilot training was tougher, but only because it was a year long event with ridiculously high standards, whereas a CFI ride was a single event. I'd have taken any of the 10 checkrides at Sheppard over my CFI check any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I do agree with Drum on the sign. Nothing wrong with the sign, every company with pilots should have a similar sign hanging over the entrances to their ops. It's not so much arrogance as it is attempting to push a mindset of professionalism and excellence.
crewdawg is offline  
Old 07-08-2021, 08:46 AM
  #42  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Apr 2020
Posts: 2,174
Default

Originally Posted by interceptorpilo View Post
Did UPT. And I did civilian CFI before the military equivalency test was available. UPT was way harder but for a lot of different reasons - one year long, evaluated every minute even when off duty, little chance for do overs, volume of information etc. But the CFI oral and check ride were actually hard too. CFI you could take as long as you wanted or needed to prepare and if you fail just do it again. No limit on do overs.
Technically correct, but have fun listing multiple CFI failures on your app and getting a call from somewhere. One or two you’re OK, beyond that it gets dicey.
PilotBases is offline  
Old 07-08-2021, 08:57 AM
  #43  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,936
Default

Originally Posted by Drum View Post
Try UPT.

I think I just spit out my cov fe fe

CFI - hard ?
A condescending fighter pilot? Color me shocked.
CBreezy is offline  
Old 07-08-2021, 09:04 AM
  #44  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,936
Default

Originally Posted by crewdawg View Post
Comparing UPT to a CFI check is ridiculous. My CFI check ride (before I went to UPT) was harder than any checkride I've ever done, military or civilian. 8 hour oral and a flight with a gruff old dude that made the biggest hammer at Sheppard seem like a santa. Pilot training was tougher, but only because it was a year long event with ridiculously high standards, whereas a CFI ride was a single event. I'd have taken any of the 10 checkrides at Sheppard over my CFI check any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I do agree with Drum on the sign. Nothing wrong with the sign, every company with pilots should have a similar sign hanging over the entrances to their ops. It's not so much arrogance as it is attempting to push a mindset of professionalism and excellence.
Agree with this 100%. It's dumb to compare them and only serves to have an unproductive sausage measuring contest. There are challenging things about each but certainly the most grueling program is UPT.

I certainly would have chosen UPT over the civilian route because one, while difficult, includes a pretty good paycheck, lodging, a massive support system and a incredible experience/resume booster. The other is incredible expensive and only gives you the right to be poor for the next 2-5 years(sometimes going a week or more without making a dime) flying, at times questionably airworthy aircraft that no one bats an eye about when trying to get a job.
CBreezy is offline  
Old 07-08-2021, 09:46 AM
  #45  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,716
Default

Originally Posted by Catboatsailor View Post
Gawd. Every time I walk thru those doors into the JFK crew room I cringe at that sign. We need humble confidence. Humble like you said, to know we must always learn to be better at our profession. We aren’t the best, that’s an unattainable goal. Confident, knowing that as a humble team we will strive for the highest level of safety.
the good news is that we changed that sign so we don’t offend military pilot egos
OOfff is offline  
Old 07-08-2021, 09:48 AM
  #46  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,143
Default

Old OOfff....the great “Uniter”. .......Good job.
Buck Rogers is offline  
Old 07-08-2021, 09:56 AM
  #47  
Gets Weekends Off
 
GucciBoy's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: Fetal
Posts: 1,148
Default

Originally Posted by Trip7 View Post
There is no reason to go back to the I'm a molecule, take me thru a pack/build an airplane days. None.

Data shows that Air Travel has never been safer than it is today. That's how big of an impact CRM and Standard Operating Procedures has been.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

I didn’t say we needed to go back to that. I’m saying the systems training we get now is inadequate. There’s quite a gap between the molecular-journey method and the open-book systems validation. The operation is surviving on the sheer experience of the pilots. That experience level is decreasing rapidly, and I think we need to do something about our training or we risk degrading that level of safety we’ve worked hard to achieve.

CRM & SOP only take you so far. That’s why you see a higher accident rate in the rest of the world. We had accidents with robust systems knowledge & deficient SOP/CRM, they often have the opposite.

As I said the first time, we need better systems training, and the only thing stopping it is money.
GucciBoy is offline  
Old 07-08-2021, 09:59 AM
  #48  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Trip7's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,392
Default

Originally Posted by GucciBoy View Post
I didn’t say we needed to go back to that. I’m saying the systems training we get now is inadequate. There’s quite a gap between the molecular-journey method and the open-book systems validation. The operation is surviving on the sheer experience of the pilots. That experience level is decreasing rapidly, and I think we need to do something about our training or we risk degrading that level of safety we’ve worked hard to achieve.

CRM & SOP only take you so far. That’s why you see a higher accident rate in the rest of the world. We had accidents with robust systems knowledge & deficient SOP/CRM, they often have the opposite.

As I said the first time, we need better systems training, and the only thing stopping it is money.
Cite an accident please where the cause was a lack of systems knowledge while having excellent CRM and SOP. Thanks

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
Trip7 is offline  
Old 07-08-2021, 10:20 AM
  #49  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,143
Default

Originally Posted by crewdawg View Post
Comparing UPT to a CFI check is ridiculous. My CFI check ride (before I went to UPT) was harder than any checkride I've ever done, military or civilian. 8 hour oral and a flight with a gruff old dude that made the biggest hammer at Sheppard seem like a santa. Pilot training was tougher, but only because it was a year long event with ridiculously high standards, whereas a CFI ride was a single event. I'd have taken any of the 10 checkrides at Sheppard over my CFI check any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I do agree with Drum on the sign. Nothing wrong with the sign, every company with pilots should have a similar sign hanging over the entrances to their ops. It's not so much arrogance as it is attempting to push a mindset of professionalism and excellence.
Not disagreeing with you on the CFI check ride....but... you ever wonder how much your experience helped you at Sheppard? I went to UPT with 10 total hours(thereabouts) after Hondo. Some guys showed up with 1500 back seat F-4 time or several thousand hours civilian. While most were figuring out how to fly a jet...AND......talk on the radio at the same time...”What’s that landing gear warning going off for”?....prior experience is invaluable. Fortunately....we rose to the occasion....many of my acquaintances were unable to do so.....”There but for the grace of God”....fortunately, here we are...no matter the avenue!
Buck Rogers is offline  
Old 07-08-2021, 10:22 AM
  #50  
Has a furrowed brow
 
Wolf424's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,152
Default

No problem with the sign.

If you don’t want to be “the best” (or attempt to better yourself to become the best), then go somewhere else. No one strives to be mediocre.
Wolf424 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
GeeWizDriver
NetJets
1409
06-29-2023 05:25 PM
EUhoppa
Career Questions
10
07-22-2013 11:13 AM
sl0wr0ll3r
United
114
11-22-2010 03:40 PM
PistolP
Regional
12
11-22-2006 08:20 PM
Pylot
Hangar Talk
8
09-04-2006 05:13 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices