Please do.

the ONLY thing CNO is legal for is notification of being placed on SC. Every other notification must come from a live human (who can leave a voicemail).

 

Some additionally info if I may:

1) CNO is phone call that leaves a voicemail…not a text message, not MiCrew notification.

2) CNO must come during a time you have contact obligation (so LC or SC)….CNO on your XX day or on rest doesn’t count.

 

Your #1 is confusing to me. Forgive me if I’m misreading, but to reiterate, a CNO does not count for a “voicemail”, though it can leave one. As I said, a CNO is ONLY valid for notification of being placed on SC, and nothing else.

A live human may legally leave a voicemail as a legal notification. If we really want to get in the weeds, rest can be delayed from a voicemail if you notify CS within 9 hours that you were u able to start test immediately (presumably due to not listening to the voicemail until later).

But you are absolutely correct that any valid contact must come whole in a contactable status.

 

Actually, he is right. To clarify - a CNO text message is NEVER notification of anything. To reiteriate, the ONLY time CNO is valid is when they are notifying you of a future SC period AND you are currently in a contactable status (LC or SC) at the time the CNO is received. What most people miss is that the only CNO that counts is a call/voicemail from the automated system.

CNO Text = can be completely disregarded no matter when it is received or what it is for.
CNO voicemail for future SC period assignment = valid notification if it is received when on LC or SC
CNO voicemail for anything other than a future SC period assignment = can be completely disregarded

For rest, the PWA says that any call for a rest assignment must come from a live scheduler. If you answer the phone they can put you into rest immediately, but if you do not answer they CANNOT start your rest until at least 2 hours after the time of the phone call. Any rest that starts earlier than 2 hours after the live call/vm is not PWA compliant.

 

As I updated my post to say, perhaps I was misreading what he said (perhaps the ‘text’ part, while I was focusing on the “phone” part), but we are in complete agreement about CNO.

However, the part about rest and 2 hours is not fully accurate, at least how I read it. PWA 23.S.5.f.2.b. In order for the rest to start 2 hours ‘later’, “the pilot must inform the company within nine hours of first attempt attempted contact if they were unable to begin their rest as scheduled.” Am I missing something?

 

You gotta quote the whole thing. "...(5)A long call pilot...(f)who is assigned a rest period....(2)via telephone contact...(b) if not contacted directly by Crew Scheduling, have such rest period begin no earlier than two hours following the first attempted contact. In such case, the pilot must inform the company within nine hours of first attempted contact if they are unable to begin their rest as scheduled."

So, per the bold part, contractually they cannot start your rest for 2 hours if you do no answer the phone. My reading of the second half of that clause means if they assign a PWA-compliant rest period, and the pilot is not able to begin such rest period, then they must contact the company within 9 hours of initial contact to tell them they could not start the rest at the two hour from initial contact point.

So, scheduling calls at 0800. Rest cannot start until 1000 if the pilot does not answer the phone. If for some reason the pilot could not start his rest at 1000 then he must call scheduling by 1700 to inform them of such. It doesn't specifically mention what a pilot should do if scheduling calls at 0800 and puts them into rest at 0830. I guess the PWA assumes that the company will follow the PWA. Assuming a pilot is on a contactable status at the time of initial contact, the safe play is to still abide by the 9 hour rule.

This exact scenario happened to me this year. Scheduling called me to assign me a rotation ~31 hours from report. I needed the 30 hour rest to be legal so in their voicemail they also put me into rest starting 15 minutes after the phone call, so not legal per 23.S.5.f.2.b. I called them right at 9 hours from their call to tell them, and they pulled the rotation and put me into a fresh 30 hour rest period right then.

 

This is one of the most underrated, underutilized clauses in our reserve language. At a time when management is seeking to extract full value from 23.S, we should be doing the same.

 

I have always read and understood that slightly differently, because the two sentences are directly linked

So you are saying if they try to assign a 30 hour rest, you can call them 9 hours after rest and potentially get up to a 39 hour rest (depending on when the call came)? I always thought the ‘limit’ was 32 That’s brilliant.

Always learning.

 

Yes, this is PhD level reserve maneuvering and I highly recommend utilizing it, in my experience most schedulers do not give you the extra two hours after you let the call go to voicemail.

 

Which demonstrates scheduling’s complete lack of understanding of FAR 117 prospective rest. Even if you receive their voicemail 1 minute after they leave it, you’re not legal to operate any rotation that is contingent on the assigned 30-hour rest in that scenario.

We’re obligated to require them to reset our rest — up to 9 hours later.