Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-23-2012 | 03:51 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,518
Likes: 0
From: B737 CA
Here's a point I've been thinking about the last day or so. Let's say this passes. 2015 rolls around, now you guys REALLY want a restoration contract, a labor-friendly Prez is still in the white house, and somehow you guys get released to strike. Management has 325 relatively efficient, 2-class airframes with 2000-2300 mi range off your list. I think they could operate a fairly decent coast-to-coast network with those assets through a strike, enough to at least get the HVC's where they're going. Meanwhile they have KLM/Air France, and other codeshare/JVs to move everyone overseas. Sure they'd lose money, but I think they'd be confident they could weather the strike and force you guys to back down. Give up enough scope, you make yourselves irrelevant.
05-23-2012 | 03:52 PM
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Let me throw this out to you. I have no inside information or influence but this is just food for thought. Let's say this TA is resubmitted with the following changes, would it be acceptable?
1) Pay rates +12.8% over current rates at DOS, +4% January 1, 2013, +4% January 1, 2014
2) Profit sharing unchanged (current levels, not TA)
3) +2% to DC plan
4) Section 1 unchanged or REAL improvements, no more 70+ seat RJs
5) This is a biggie to me. AMENDMENT DATE 12/31/2014
This would give productivity improvements the company wants and a contract we don't have to swallow for so many years. Since this TA was negotiated in short order, it may behoove both parties to have shorter contracts with quick paced negotiations in this highly dynamic business environment.
BD
1) Pay rates +12.8% over current rates at DOS, +4% January 1, 2013, +4% January 1, 2014
2) Profit sharing unchanged (current levels, not TA)
3) +2% to DC plan
4) Section 1 unchanged or REAL improvements, no more 70+ seat RJs
5) This is a biggie to me. AMENDMENT DATE 12/31/2014
This would give productivity improvements the company wants and a contract we don't have to swallow for so many years. Since this TA was negotiated in short order, it may behoove both parties to have shorter contracts with quick paced negotiations in this highly dynamic business environment.
BD
Carl
05-23-2012 | 03:59 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 326
Likes: 0
From: Nice while it lasted
Here's a point I've been thinking about the last day or so. Let's say this passes. 2015 rolls around, now you guys REALLY want a restoration contract, a labor-friendly Prez is still in the white house, and somehow you guys get released to strike. Management has 325 relatively efficient, 2-class airframes with 2000-2300 mi range off your list. I think they could operate a fairly decent coast-to-coast network with those assets through a strike, enough to at least get the HVC's where they're going. Meanwhile they have KLM/Air France, and other codeshare/JVs to move everyone overseas. Sure they'd lose money, but I think they'd be confident they could weather the strike and force you guys to back down. Give up enough scope, you make yourselves irrelevant.
05-23-2012 | 04:03 PM
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Allowing management to dump 250 old, inefficient RJs they've been dying to get rid of anyways and letting them by 70 new, efficient, 757-CASM mainline replacement jets they've been dying to get their hands on? Scope down.
Here's a point I've been thinking about the last day or so. Let's say this passes. 2015 rolls around, now you guys REALLY want a restoration contract, a labor-friendly Prez is still in the white house, and somehow you guys get released to strike. Management has 325 relatively efficient, 2-class airframes with 2000-2300 mi range off your list. I think they could operate a fairly decent coast-to-coast network with those assets through a strike, enough to at least get the HVC's where they're going. Meanwhile they have KLM/Air France, and other codeshare/JVs to move everyone overseas. Sure they'd lose money, but I think they'd be confident they could weather the strike and force you guys to back down. Give up enough scope, you make yourselves irrelevant.
Here's a point I've been thinking about the last day or so. Let's say this passes. 2015 rolls around, now you guys REALLY want a restoration contract, a labor-friendly Prez is still in the white house, and somehow you guys get released to strike. Management has 325 relatively efficient, 2-class airframes with 2000-2300 mi range off your list. I think they could operate a fairly decent coast-to-coast network with those assets through a strike, enough to at least get the HVC's where they're going. Meanwhile they have KLM/Air France, and other codeshare/JVs to move everyone overseas. Sure they'd lose money, but I think they'd be confident they could weather the strike and force you guys to back down. Give up enough scope, you make yourselves irrelevant.
Carl
05-23-2012 | 04:07 PM
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Carl
05-23-2012 | 04:19 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,583
Likes: 326
Wrong. If we vote this in, it will be only because many junior (former RJ pilots) voted YES. Current RJ pilots will view this as the last straw for taking away a bigger chunk of their chance for a mainline job. They will not consider it struck work...they will consider it payback. Book it.
Carl
Carl
05-23-2012 | 04:22 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 745
Likes: 0
From: 777 Sim Instructor
I disagree with you Carl. I think the former regional jet guys realize that this is a scope sell. We do not buy ALPA's argument that getting 70 new 76 seaters that are not currently allowed is good for us. It's the military guys that don't think for themselves that are going to vote this in.
05-23-2012 | 04:27 PM
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
Likes: 0
From: B757/767
Allowing management to dump 250 old, inefficient RJs they've been dying to get rid of anyways and letting them by 70 new, efficient, 757-CASM mainline replacement jets they've been dying to get their hands on? Scope down.
Here's a point I've been thinking about the last day or so. Let's say this passes. 2015 rolls around, now you guys REALLY want a restoration contract, a labor-friendly Prez is still in the white house, and somehow you guys get released to strike. Management has 325 relatively efficient, 2-class airframes with 2000-2300 mi range off your list. I think they could operate a fairly decent coast-to-coast network with those assets through a strike, enough to at least get the HVC's where they're going. Meanwhile they have KLM/Air France, and other codeshare/JVs to move everyone overseas. Sure they'd lose money, but I think they'd be confident they could weather the strike and force you guys to back down. Give up enough scope, you make yourselves irrelevant.
Here's a point I've been thinking about the last day or so. Let's say this passes. 2015 rolls around, now you guys REALLY want a restoration contract, a labor-friendly Prez is still in the white house, and somehow you guys get released to strike. Management has 325 relatively efficient, 2-class airframes with 2000-2300 mi range off your list. I think they could operate a fairly decent coast-to-coast network with those assets through a strike, enough to at least get the HVC's where they're going. Meanwhile they have KLM/Air France, and other codeshare/JVs to move everyone overseas. Sure they'd lose money, but I think they'd be confident they could weather the strike and force you guys to back down. Give up enough scope, you make yourselves irrelevant.
05-23-2012 | 04:29 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
631 total RJs (unlimited 50 seat and Q-400s allowed):
376 50s 18,800 seats
102 70s 7,140 seats
153 76s 11,628 seats
Total= 37,568 seats
Without TA with more narrow bodies:
376 50s (unlimited) = 18,800+ seats
255 76s = 19,380
Total = 38,180 minimum
With TA: 450 RJs Capped
125 50s = 6,250
102 70s = 7,140 seats
223 76s (32 less) = 16,948
Total = 30,338 seats
Mainline adds 10,296 seats
DCI loss 7230 seats (plus any evilQ400 planes)
Scope up or Scope down?
376 50s 18,800 seats
102 70s 7,140 seats
153 76s 11,628 seats
Total= 37,568 seats
Without TA with more narrow bodies:
376 50s (unlimited) = 18,800+ seats
255 76s = 19,380
Total = 38,180 minimum
With TA: 450 RJs Capped
125 50s = 6,250
102 70s = 7,140 seats
223 76s (32 less) = 16,948
Total = 30,338 seats
Mainline adds 10,296 seats
DCI loss 7230 seats (plus any evilQ400 planes)
Scope up or Scope down?
Scope down. imho.
fwiw, the 70 seaters don't seat 70. And frankly, I need to go back and look and see if we have any non 50 seat CRJ-200s.
05-23-2012 | 04:29 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 326
Likes: 0
From: Nice while it lasted
Wrong. If we vote this in, it will be only because many junior (former RJ pilots) voted YES. Current RJ pilots will view this as the last straw for taking away a bigger chunk of their chance for a mainline job. They will not consider it struck work...they will consider it payback. Book it.
Carl
Carl
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
